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frederic

Buddha Bar, what do you think?

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This Buddha Bar thing, I don't know what to think of it? But I can't help to feel that this is another demonstration of mankind's profound ignorance and of the degeneration of the race...

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on that.

 

Thank you.

Frederic

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Tashi Delek.

 

If the state symbols are not allowed by the law to be used in the way, which would injure dignity and respect of the state and the nation, then also the religious symbols should not be used in the way, which would or could injure dignity and respect of any religion and should be protected, if not by the special law, as objects of a “special cultural meaning”, at least.

Contents of the law follow more or less in the un/succesfull manner the life itself, yet on the field of the religious matter, it seems that the law is far, far behind...

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek,

 

Sorry, what is this Buddha Bar thing?

 

If the state symbols are not allowed by the law to be used in the way, which would injure dignity and respect of the state and the nation, then also the religious symbols should not be used in the way, which would or could injure dignity and respect of any religion and should be protected

Article 300 of Slovene Penal Code also deals with stirring up of religious hatred. It if it is committed by desecration of religious symbols, the sentence is imprisonment for up to 5 years. 5 years of imprisonmnt is such a harsh sanction that even so-called suspended sentence is not possible (i.e. giving a prison sentence, which won't be executed if in next e.g. 4 years the new criminal act is not committed). Of course, both conditions need to be fulfiled in a concrete matter: stirring up of religious hatred and so that it is done by the desecration of religious symbols.

 

+ if not by the special law, as objects of a “special cultural meaning”, at least.

This probably wouldn't be possible due to the principle of separation between state and religious communities in Slovene constitution. Religious buildings can be cultural monuments, but symbols for itself no.

 

Contents of the law follow more or less in the un/succesfull manner the life itself, yet on the field of the religious matter, it seems that the law is far, far behind...

True. Hopefully in Slovenia so-called Gulic' proposal will be accepted and this will be mended :wink:. The mentioned proposal deals also with the protection of religious symbols - vis-a-vis the state, the political parties&candidates and the public schools but not the private sector. On the other hand the governmental proposal doesn't regulate religious symbols at all. More here: www.vox-libera.org.uk

 

Best regards,

Draftsman

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Tashi Delek, draftsman.

Sorry, what is this Buddha Bar thing?
http://www.buddha-bar.com/

I don`t know how the other states handle the misuse of the religious symbols. Yet, to stir up the religious hatred it is not the one and only misuse of the religious symbols. They can be misused in order to make oneself valued as a businessman or artist, too (you might remember two Slovene artists, who burnt a statue of the cross few years ago in order to make some affecting photos for the art exhibition in Italy).

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek dear All!

 

Why holly objects are precious and wish-fulfilling (Lama Zopa Rinpoche)

…. Every time you look at holy objects, pictures of the Buddha, statues, scriptures, stupas – they plant the seed of liberation and enlightenment in your mental continuum. …. They plant a seed or positive imprint on your mental continuum.

In the King of Concentration sutra is mentioned:

…. Even if you look with anger at a drawing of Buddha done on a stone wall it creates the cause to see ten billions Buddhas. …. The drawing of Buddha has so much power it purifies the person's mind, their devilments. Please, read more here.

Yes, and the question about Buddha bar still remain. Surly it is matter of ones motivation either to run such bar/restaurant or ones who want to spend the time in such atmosphere. Here in Slovenia/Ljubljana you can hardly find some pleasant restaurant with good vegetarian food. Not knowing Buddha bar restaurants, I will not jugging it in advanced. I will appreciate to hear more information; maybe personal experience of those who has already visited such a restaurant.

With best wishes,

tatjana

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Tashi Delek,

 

Thanks for your thoughts on that.

 

As Drafstman mentionned desacration of religious symbols, these are the words I was looking for... I mean, they use the image of the Buddha in order to make their bar popular, sell alcohol and endulge sentient beings in sensual pleasures (delicate food, etc.). I have personaly never been in one of these bars, and have no intentions to, because Shakyamouni Buddha never endorsed the selling nor the drinking of alcohol in his lifetime, right? Nor did He endorse futile activities like socializing in bars and such things...

 

Thank you.

Frederic

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Thanks for your thoughts!

In general I agree with all of you. But still wondering how could be Buddha's teaching spread, yet all sentient being have no karma to join us in Etnografski muzej ( the place where we in Slovenia met Dharma teachings) :D / or some others places where Dhamra’s teachings are given, isn't it?

 

Lot years ago, I have a colleague and he was an alcoholic. After therapy he completely avoids drinking; it was very good for him and all others around. Definitely, he got ride of alcohol, but unfortunately also lost a sense of socializing. He become an angry abstinent.

 

tatjana

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Tashi Delek,

 

I just don't think it is right to associate the image of the Buddha with drinking alcohol and futile activities. It gives the wrong image about what the teachings of the Buddha are about and what the Buddha actually represents... No?

 

Thank you.

Frederic

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Tashi Delek.

what the Buddha actually represents... No?
One could say that the objects have a meaning which one gives them, so from the point of the view of the guests of that bar, there might be some, who would give the statue of the Buddha the full meaning, despite located in the bar...but from the point of the view of the owner...well, we cannot know what he was thinking about when putting the Buddha statue in the bar. But, one is sure...to open a bar one should get an official permission from the administrative body, which is given on the basis of the legal system, which regulate the place in accordance with the purpose of the object, i. e. place. The purpose to run a bar is to sell drinks and food and not to perform religious rituals or hand the teachings over. From this point we could understand that the usage of the religious symbols in bars like the Buddha statue is in order to decorate a place and create a nice atmosphere. Which, again, is created to attract the people to visit the bar and spend their money there. I seriously doubt that the purpose of the chief manager of that bar is that guests would reach the Enlightenment.

I think that the usage of the religious symbols in the places or/and in the way, which is not religious by the purpose degradate them to the level of just another fashionable symbols of the status and certainly take their elementary meaning away.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek,

 

I agree with you Simona.

 

Yet, it's not so much for the statue that I mind. I mean, I have been in many restaurants where there were statues of Buddhas and such, and that was fine, very good, excellent even! It plants the right seeds!

 

But, it's the concept that bothers me. Calling a bar, "Buddha Bar", and launching a franchise from Paris to New York, basically trying to attract "jet setters" and such, make something very high standing, something "cool", make a lot of money out of it, using the symbol of the Enlightened Being, One who has let go of all this c..., found the way out of it by Himself and then taught it for all sentient beings to seize! It's capitalism putting its grip on something sacred... while capitalism is so, not sacred! I find that... unerving...confusing... :lol: Well, I am sure the Buddhas themselves don't mind though :wink:

 

Best regards,

Frederic

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Tashi Delek.

Calling a bar, "Buddha Bar"
If one wishes to put the word “Slovenija” in the name of the company or pub, one needs to ask the government, which would take the application into the consideration and decide about that. Then, we have also a law of the correct usage of the Slovene language, which restrains the usage of the foreign languages`s words in the names of the companies.

From the point of the view of the religious symbols is there anyone who would consider their usage? What is the purpose to have the article 300 in Slovene Penal Code? The same system which wrote this article has broad opened the door for the misuse and abuse of these sacred symbols at the same time. Sorry, but this remainds me on the sale of the cigarettes in the boxes, on which is written: Smoking causes death or something like that.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek,

 

Hej, frends I’m not Buddha bar’s marketing developer and I agree with some regulations and law principles shuld be sut up in order to avoid confusion. I also don’t know what will Buddha said about putting his satatue in those bar.But no need to make a guess, yet he tought about how to calm our bodies and concentrate our minds to awaken the four religious qualities of loving friendship, compassion, altruistic joy, and equanimity - Four Immesurables. The Buddha also declared that in regard to ascetic life “all the castes” are equal.

With best wishes,

 

tatjana

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Tashi Delek,

It gives the wrong image about what the teachings of the Buddha are about and what the Buddha actually represents... No?

Knowing a little bit of the music from so called albums (Buddha Bar), I agree....some of the pieces are indeed very enjoyable for the hearing sense, some even seem to try to resonate with something deeper than that...but, they seem to be done with the purpose to catch the humankind tendency to be going away from one(real)self-the truth, not bringing closer...

:P I know, like all the music industry...; yes, I basically don't see any differences, even though the name of the Buddha is included...that's why it can hurt a little..

All the best,

Pamo

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Tashi Delek,

Yet, to stir up the religious hatred it is not the one and only misuse of the religious symbols. They can be misused in order to make oneself valued as a businessman or artist, too (you might remember two Slovene artists, who burnt a statue of the cross few years ago in order to make some affecting photos for the art exhibition in Italy).

Theoretically, public burning of the cross could qualify as stirring up of religious hatred by desecration of a religious symbol. I remember that the two artists you mention, were in criminal procedure, but don't know how it ended. But artists probably should be allowed some more freedom of expression than the businesmen (not to say that burning a cross for the sake of provocation is ok).

 

If one wishes to put the word Slovenija in the name of the company or pub, one needs to ask the government, which would take the application into the consideration and decide about that.

Actually, if one wants to put the name/surname of the historical person in the firm (name) of the company (also bar), one needs a permission of the minister for public administration. According to the new proposal of law the same goes for pseudonyms.

 

Trademarks also mustn't be made of signs, which oppose to the moral and public order or which mislead the public about the quality of goods/services.

 

And advertising in general mustn't be indecent - meaning including elements, which are or could be offensive to consumers, viewers etc. or elements which oppose to morality. Fine can be up to 10.000.000 tolars (app. 41.841 euros) for a legal entity. Slovene Advertising Codex specifically states that advertising mustn't offend religious or atheistic feelings of the citizens. Unfortunately, Slovene Honorary Advertising Court doesn't really have the authority to enforce real sanctions, but it can suggest solutions to state bodies. Of course this is only Slovene regulation.

 

I agree with Frederic. Association of the Buddha' name with profitable, liquor selling bars is just despicable.

 

Best regards,

Draftsman

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Agreed.

 

For me, there is a dangerous confusion at stake here... Thanks to such type of establishment, sentient beings may start to wrongly associate the Buddha's name and symbol with enjoying samsara and indulging into sensual pleasures which is, must I remind, completely at the opposite of what the Buddha's teachings are all about!

 

Too much irony in this world... ''oo'' (and I have a feeling this is nothing compared to what's ahead of us!)

 

Regards,

Frederic

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Tashi Delek.

But artists probably should be allowed some more freedom of expression than the businesmen
I`m not so sure what artists do you have in your mind :) ...Western artists usually express their own individuality by the help of the symbols. Yet, the Tibetan artists use their individuality as a tool to make the religious symbols more vivid and alive. First seek public acclaim, while the Tibetan artists usually remain anonymous.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek.

 

I`ve got just three more questions concerning this new religious law in Slovenia:

1. is the religious law in Slovenia subject of the harmonization process with the EU law system?

2. Is there any EU Directive or there will be one (we shall not forget that also in EU the law system is coming into existence, which would result in some “after” harmonization, even only partial)?

3. There is a demand of the EU law system about undiscriminate treatment of the persons, living in the EU. Is this also applied in the field of the religions?

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek

1. is the religious law in Slovenia subject of the harmonization process with the EU law system?

As far as I know, only one EU directive applies to the new proposals of religious law (Council Directive 2000/78/EC of 27 November 2000). It gives religious communities and similar organizations the right to include conditions such as religious belief in the case of employment/occupation for specific functions in these organizations. So this kind of treatment doesn't qualify as discrimination (as it otherwise would).

 

Interestingly, both (Slovene) proposals take notice of this "non-discrimination" exception, yet the governmental doesn't quote the directive in the explanation (although is obliged to name EU sources as every proposal of law). Maybe because it copied the Gulic proposal on this matter :wink:?

 

EU is not primarily concerned with religion, so it leaves the regulation to member states (hence the not-yet-valid EU constitution' provisions). So, EU doesn't care, whether state-church system or religious democracy is enforced by member states. As far as I know.

 

Best regards,

Draftsman

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Tashi Delek, draftsman.

 

Thank you for the answer. I know from some other case, that there much can be done through the EU Directives, if the state representatives launch some initiative. It should to get opened to the EU and the World and not to keep closed in the own state.

Well, that`s just my narrow opinion. :D

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Guest Genjen

Tashi Delek, everyone

 

However, i am not familiar with all of Buddha Bar, though i have heard some of its music. I think i might be quiet benefitial at some point on the path. Our views are different and teachings of the Buddha have been given in what ? At least 1000 ways ?? So this might be just one of the ways Buddha manifests in a modern western society.

 

Is just my point of understanding.

 

All the best

Genjen

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Tashi Delek,

Our views are different and teachings of the Buddha have been given in what ? At least 1000 ways ??
To be precise, it is said that Shakyamuni Buddha gave 84.000 Teachings :)

 

I am not familiar with this collection of music, but i do not feel (by the name of it) it is appropriate. Padmasambhava predicted that in our time Dharma will degenerate; and including Tibetan mantras in songs with "popy tunes" is an indication or the sad present-time actuality of this prediction.

 

We should take special care to keep and practice Dharma as purely as possible i feel, otherwise, in time, we will not know what is genuine and what is not - that would already be the definition of degeneration, i'm afraid. :(=

 

Best regards,

Khyenrab

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I haven't been to the Buddha Bar, but I'v seen a documentary about it and it made me sick. I don't think that I was even a Buddhist at the time, but to me it was more than obvious that the whole idea is perverse. The restaurant is for jetset only. I don't think any of us could afford a meal there. They even sell Buddha Bar incense at a ridiculously high price. The whole thing is designed to cater to all senses, not only in terms of food, but also in terms of smells, attractive environment, music etc. Part of this catering to the senses is the large statue of the Buddha that stands at the back of the restaurant. Given this context it actually seems that Buddha himself is presiding over some god realm where there are endless opportunities for pleasurable sensations.

 

Well, it all seemed very sad to me and in the last place where I would want to go. First of all, all the people there are not even aware of the Buddha statue. They are to busy enjoying their food, drink (wine), good coversation, cigarettes and music. When I watched that film it seemed all very sad: Buddha completely forgotten in the world of samsara... A very good metaphor for our degenerate time.

 

Secondly, the owners of this establishment are making huge profits, abusing the name of the Buddha for their selfish goals.

 

Thirdly, both visitors and the owners are accumulating huge amounts of negative karma by disrespecting the Buddha and the Dharma. It doesn't matter that many of them are not even aware of it. They still accumulate negative karma.

 

Yes, it is true that we can encounter Dharma in many different ways, but I don't think that combined with alcohol and unhealthy food consumption the imprint makes any difference.

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