Jump to content
Dharmaling Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Pamo

Life in other realms

Recommended Posts

Hello,

how can I imagine life in other but human being and animal realms; I know the greed and craving, and I also know the hell of anger, but to visualize it, how would that be? And also gods realms.....?

Pamo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until the staff is back, may I offer some words of my limited knowledge.

 

All sentient beings in the six realms of existence suffer from fundamental Ignorance. There are upper and lower realms: the upper are: humans, gods and semi-gods. The lower are: animals, pretas and beings in hells.

Much understanding derives from "Better karma = better re-birth" equasion. Also: "the better the rebirth - the better the chances of Liberation"; actually, the highest - the human rebirth is the only one which "provides" a possibility of Liberation, when engaged in Dharma, accumulation of merits, development of Wisdom and proper Guidance. That is why there is a lot of talk about "the precious human re-birth and the extreme luck of having met the Dharma". I think it is said that a human re-birth is also extremely rare, there was an analogy of a sea-animal (I can't remember which), which comes to the surface of the sea every thousand years and stays there for a very short time, and then submerges again for another thousand years. So, to have been born human, according to Buddhist teachings, it is extreme luck! That is why it is also said that we should "cease the day" to study Dharma, to practice meditation, to say as many beneficial mantras, to check or minds constantly, to practice compassion, develop Bodhicitta and accumulate as many merits as possible for the benefit of all sentient beings! That is our only "ticket out".

 

About gods and semi-gods: they live in abundance, wealth, they have everything that you could wish for, but are ignorant of the fact that without an altruistic attitude there can be no accumulation of positive karma. So, they enjoy their lives terribly, wasting all good karma they have. They somewhat like the Greek gods - having bad human qualities, but also some "super" powers. Because of the luxury surrounding them they don't see any neccesity to study Dharma, although it is not totally inaccessible. In comparison with gods (devas), the demi-gods (asuras) suffer from heavy jealousy, and are therefore meaner, you could say.

 

Some time ago I went to the ZOO and watched the animals and felt very strong pity for them. They are completely immersed in ignorance, can't do many good deeds, if any!?, can't understand Dharma. That's why I imagine their suffering must be very bad. In the Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life there is a passage: "May the animals' risk of being eaten by each other disappear!"

 

About pretas: they are called craving spirits or hungry ghosts: small in size, they have extreme difficulty moving, always hungry, they crave for food and liquid and cannot find any. If there is any remote access to Dharma, their suffering is to immense to pay any attention to it. Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life: "May the pretas always be satiated, bathed, and refreshed by streams of milk pouring from the hand of noble Avalokiteshvara."

 

About beings in hells: they experience great great pains! As if they were put between two mountains who are crushing into one another. If you lose one of your fingers or any other organs, the pain of removal of it will stay for you forever! And whatever happens to that, now separated organ, you will experience as if still attached to your body. Terrible, unbearable pains! "From Bodhisattvacharyavatara: "May the intense pains and fears of the beings in hells be pacified. May the inhabitants of all miserable states of existence be liberated from their woeful states."

 

That is all I can tell you.

Enough I think. :wink:

 

Atreju

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is why it is also said that we should "cease the day" to study Dharma, to practice meditation...

Fortunately we cannot cease the day, that would be terrible - but we most certainly can seize it! :)

 

Greetings,

Atreju

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some time ago I went to the ZOO and watched the animals and felt very strong pity for them. They are completely immersed in ignorance, can't do many good deeds, if any!?, can't understand Dharma. That's why I imagine their suffering must be very bad. In the Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life there is a passage: "May the animals' risk of being eaten by each other disappear!"

 

I think, they are ignorant and have no consciouness of their ignorance, so if you don't know you're suffuring ... you don't really suffer ! it's like if you didn't know that television exists, how do you want to be in pain ?

the only fact, is that they are primitiv and all what they have to do, is to eat, protect their territory, sleep, and procreate, they don't need something else ... and nobody guides them on the dharma !

 

I have a little cat (Tornade, 2 months and 2weeks), I don't see any pains in her eyes when she looks at me , it's because she's not conscious.

We, human are conscious of bad and good and have the controle and the morality to guide our own life, that's make a difference, we have jump up the state of primal needing ... and we are conscious of this, and know that to submerge the evil we have the choice to practise the Dharma way ...

 

all is a question of the degree, devellopment and evolution of consciousness, it's a teaching.

 

That's what I think... what I have mdeditate on ! but I'm ready to hear and meditate again on others posts !

 

Tashi Delek

Angy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again,

Atreju thanks. This is very helpful. And rich to me! Is there any book I can read, too? For a better picture...as a movie, you know :-) . And I would like to share my view of animals...I also get sad many times thinking about them, especially when I see their fearful eyes. I think they must be experience fear a lot. I see it even in cats' eyes, too, Angy, your cat is a lucky one. She must feel very safe with you. On the other hand, Atreju, I don't think they can not do any good deeds. Many animals, for example, are capable of adopting a lost child of another animal, even of a different species. Some animals are very good in helping people, with their work in the fields, for traveling, as guids for blind people, to find lost people in the mountains or bring them to the shore if they are about to drown. Some animals are capable to establish such a good connection with their human friend they behave in this way, too, in the sence of protecting them....anyways, just giving the joy of its company to another being is also a good deed, don't you think?

All the very best and thank you both for replying to this message.

Pamo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think, they are ignorant and have no consciouness of their ignorance, so if you don't know you're suffuring ... you don't really suffer ! it's like if you didn't know that television exists, how do you want to be in pain ?

I remember myself in high-school. I listened to cool music, had a cool girlfriend and had pretty good grades and thought that this was heaven. In fact, I was in a lot of pain. Restless, heavy on others and myself. No control of the mind or emotions. If you are not conscious of your suffering it doesn't mean you are not suffering, on the contrary - as long as you don't know it, you can't really change the state you are in.

 

Is there any book I can read, too? For a better picture...as a movie, you know :-) . And I would like to share my view of animals...I also get sad many times thinking about them, especially when I see their fearful eyes. I think they must be experience fear a lot.

Unfortunately I don't know any books on this topic. Generally speaking I would say that the intelligence of animals is so much smaller than that of the human, that their capacity to develop altruism and accumulate merits is incomparably smaller. There may be exceptions, but otherwise...

 

Best regards,

Atreju

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek!

 

I have a little cat (Tornade, 2 months and 2weeks), I don't see any pains in her eyes when she looks at me , it's because she's not conscious.

 

I think that suffering doesn't mean only pain or fear or anger or etc. That are the most obvious forms of suffering. We also suffer because of impermanence, the fact that everything changes - every our "achievement" doesn't make a sense then. Because this "achievement" will disappear... Also we suffer because we are limited and we are not free from karma.

So, suffering in Buddhist sense, I think, has wider meaning that it is in our Westerner's concept "suffering". Our Westerner's word "suffering" may not reflect the deep meaning what is a real SUFFERING :?

So, we can have a fun, smile and so on, but in fact we suffer :wink:

 

Sasha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I understand this in that way ... then we have to make a new dictionnary !! :lol:

 

Tashi Delek

Angy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek :)

 

I have a few questions abouth the six realms of rebith if I may.

 

1) What kind of bodies do beings in hells and preta realms have?

2) What are average life spans of these beings?

3) Is there any kind of "tangible" interaction between the five other realms and the human realm? If yes, of what sort, potency?

4) How easy is it to make the downfall from the human realm to hell or preta realm? And how difficult is it to climb the leader vice versa?

5) Would eating meat mean that it is possible (that it is the direct causation) that you will be eaten by another being in this or other lives?

 

Thank you for the answers,

Khyenrab

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest lodreu

Tashi Delek,

 

Here are some answers :-)

 

What kind of bodies do beings in hells and preta realms have?

As in the dream realm or Bardo state, usually subtle body. Nevertheless the pain they have to go through isn't subtle. But as their body isn't composed of gross elements and will not die unless all their karma has rippen, they will have to endure the suffering linked to their state over and over.

 

What are average life spans of these beings?

According to their karmas :-). But usually very long. Nevertheless, due to the overwhelming suffering the mind is engaged in, any though turned toward help, dharma, regret, etc ... creates a very strong potential, which can free them instantly.

 

Is there any kind of "tangible" interaction between the five other realms and the human realm? If yes, of what sort, potency?

According to the karma and potential of each being there is. I've read stories of different interactions. They are quite rare for all realms except between animal and human realm.

For exemple Lama Zopa Rinpoche was explaining the benefits of offering food to the Preta by giving the exemple of one Preta, who in more than 12 years, had found as only food the phlegm of one monk, who by spitting on the ground offered it to the Preta. So even this very disguting thing for our taste was regarded as very precious by this Preta.

 

How easy is it to make the downfall from the human realm to hell or preta realm? And how difficult is it to climb the leader vice versa?

Much too easilly to my taste we can fall from one fortunate rebirth to an unfortunate one, the ladder is then much difficult to climb back. Why is it so? Mostly because of our unhability to control our mind. Our habit is to react strongly to each phenomenon we encounter, with negative emotions most of the time, with attachement, aversion, anger, etc ... And the potential of these emotions is very strong.

If we don't have the ability to control them when we have the space for (i.e. in the human realm, where suffering and pleasure are balanced enough to do this work), how could we do it when suffering, pleasure or dullness are overwhelming our minds? Therefore making the necessary causes for a next human rebirth very difficult to gather.

 

Would eating meat mean that it is possible (that it is the direct causation) that you will be eaten by another being in this or other lives?

By living on the suffering of other beings, what type of causes could you create? If at the moment you eat meat you are driven by strong attachment to the pleasure it gives, this becomes even stronger negativities.

When you do it by compassion for all beings, to sustain the body when your body effectively needs it, to benefit other beings,then the result is different.

But how many people can really say that they have developped Bodhicitta stably and that their actions are turned toward other beings?

 

Best regards,

Lodreu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again,

above we were talking about animals, of how and if they are capable of experiencing any feelings and act in a way some would presume only a human being can...there is an interesting book (I am reading now :) ) entitled Ko sloni jokajo or originally When elephants weep: the emotional lives of animals. If you find it interesting too...

by

pamo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek,

I have this (learned) belief in me that stones and plants and mountains and chairs...do not have the Intelligence - Consciousness; that only it can be thought so, but mistaken, because spirits decide to reside in certain trees or mountains or places which do not seem in this sense alive, due to the karma of all the circumstances.

But, now many times already, I have heard and read, even in Pabonka Rinpoche's Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand, that sometimes people reborn as tree trunks, stones, or even smaller and very trivial objects.

How is it with this please?

Thank you.

Pamo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek,

 

Indeed, plants, tree, or stones do not have their own consciousness.

 

many times already, I have heard and read, even in Pabonka Rinpoche's Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand, that sometimes people reborn as tree trunks, stones, or even smaller and very trivial objects.

To my knowledge, it is rather rare that consciousness take rebirth in small object. But it happens that some spirits take rebirth in bushes, rocks, and such.

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek Dear Rinpoche,

I tried to find it, in the Liberation of the Palm of Your Hand; but couldn't. I must have misunderstood it. That many times! :(

Though it is much better to be like this. :)

Thank you.

All the very best,

Pamo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek.

 

...stones and plants and mountains and chairs...do not have the Intelligence - Consciousness.

 

If I look at the flower, I would defintely say that the flower did not come into existence from nothing and also it won`t annihilate into nothing. It is an embodiment. An embodiment has to be the product of the past karma and/or choices. And, if so, there has to be also a storehouse of consciousness (Alaya), where all the karma from beginningless time is stored. And Alaya is a part of the Vijnana consciousness. I am biased to the thought that in the nature there is a consciousness, and not in spite of, yet because of a consciousness is the one, which chose the embodiment and it is not the embodiment, which would chose the consciousness.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ani.Chödrön

Tashi Delek

 

If I look at the flower, I would defintely say that the flower did not come into existence from nothing and also it won`t annihilate into nothing. It is an embodiment. An embodiment has to be the product of the past karma and/or choices.

 

Whose karma and choices? :mrgreen: As far as i know, plants and minerals have no potential for Enlightenment - our surrounding is a result of our own karmic potentials. Changing weather, stinky city or beautiful sky, green forests or ice desert... is the result of our past thoughts, words and actions ripening.

 

Best regards,

chödrön

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek.

 

Whose karma and choices? Changing weather, stinky city or beautiful sky, green forests or ice desert... is the result of our past thoughts, words and actions ripening.

 

Partly understood. Is the Moon or is it our perception of something as the Moon the result of our past thoughts, words and action ripening? If the last, could we rely upon our perception? It might be that for an atom its space is the infinite kingdom, just as for the human beings the world of our perceptions is infinite kingdom?

 

 

Best regards,

 

Simona :*

 

P. S.: Thank you for warning, Gigu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read from H. H. Blavatsky

If you mix information from Traditional Wisdom Path, as Buddha-Dharma, with such "things" as what Blavatsky said, you will get nothing but confusion...

 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek,

Is the Moon or is it our perception of something as the Moon the result of our past thoughts, words and action ripening?

Yes, ALL your perceptions are fruits of your past actions (of body, speech, or mind).

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tashi Delek.

 

To go the right way means to me the most. I failed. I failed in something, that means me the most. I can`t believe it.

Will somebody give me a hand, please.

 

 

Simona

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's going on Simona, what did you fail??? Where is this "I" that actually failed?? Check and see if you can find it :) And what is there to fail, really? We all make mistakes, that's the only real way we can make progress, right?

Don't worry be happy :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FREDERIC.

THANK YOU.

I´m taking back for a while. I need peace. I comfort myself that in the very eye of the hurricane, there is still.

 

Simona

 

All the best to you, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...