Guest Ani.Chödrön Report post Posted October 7, 2008 Is the difference between the Divine Pride and the harmful selfish pride in humbleness? It seems to me that humbleness is perfectly compatible with the Divine Pride, while being contradictory to the selfish pride. I would like to check this, and know the topic very well, because i heard some alarming sad stories of "falls" of long-term Vajrayana practitioners, and as far as i know the consequences can be quite hard to bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shenpen.Rinpoche 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2008 Is the difference between the Divine Pride and the harmful selfish pride in humbleness? As you know that there is of course huge difference between Divine and selfish pride. Indeed, humbleness can go along with Divine pride. Eventually, “should†go along. Otherwise, the practitioner losing humbleness might fall into usual, selfish, pride. This Divine pride, as taught in Highest Tantra is comparable to self-confidence, faith that one has the possibility to become a Buddha, by “matching†with the archetype of a Buddha, as we can imagine it without to be yet. The line is thin, and if the mind is weak, and if the mind doesn’t follow correctly the indications of one’s Root Guru, it’s easy to get caught in nothing more than usual samsaric projections of usual pride and ego. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael John Smith 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2008 I have come a accross pride in my studies of the Virya paramita, which is to do with energy. In order to develop energy, diligence, vigour and effort it is necessary to generate a certain pride, which I think is the "divine pride" being talked about. This means the pride of action - as Nagarjuna says "liberation depends n oneself - there is no such thing as someone helping us. It also means the pride of capability where Nagarjuna says "the worldly beings, sentinent beings who are not free of delusion, are incpable of achieving their own purpose, and acting as I do. Therefore, I shall follow this." And then there is the pride of delusion where Nagarjuna says " If a dead snake is encountered, even if a crow flies high as a garuda. If I am weak, I am harmed by breaking even small precepts. Does he who is discouraged and gives up Energy win Liberation? His only result is loss. I have also learned that pride is something extra, to be burned up completely. As I see it pride is necessary to generate energy in ones practice and nothinhg else and should be burned up in the practice, which is then properly dedicated. Is this what you term as divine pride, I don't know but I do know otherwise pride is a deadly sin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael John Smith 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2008 As you know that there is of course huge difference between Divine and selfish pride.Indeed, humbleness can go along with Divine pride. Eventually, “should†go along. Otherwise, the practitioner losing humbleness might fall into usual, selfish, pride. This Divine pride, as taught in Highest Tantra is comparable to self-confidence, faith that one has the possibility to become a Buddha, by “matching†with the archetype of a Buddha, as we can imagine it without to be yet. The line is thin, and if the mind is weak, and if the mind doesn’t follow correctly the indications of one’s Root Guru, it’s easy to get caught in nothing more than usual samsaric projections of usual pride and ego. Does this mean Divine Pride is a genuine taste of the supreme bliss of enlightenment and should therefore be dedicated properly as with any other accumulated merit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites