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Freewill And Beyond Determinism And Indeterminism

#1 User is offline   smokey 

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 11:30 AM

I have several questions if you would please answer them. Buddha said: "There is free action, there is retribution, but I see no agent that passes out from one set of momentary elements into another one, except the connection of those elements.". Does that mean that we have free will? And also just after the enlightenment Buddha said: "It will be difficult for a man to understand law which connects causes and effects." Does that mean that the relation between cause and effect is not deterministic? Final question: Is determinism a wrong view? I know that indeterminism is a wrong view because of cause and effect.
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#2 User is offline   Goodie 

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 02:26 PM

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Does that mean that we have free will?
Still struggling with this topic too :), I can just post a link to dr. Berzin's audio explanation titled "Karma: Free Will versus Determinism": http://www.berzinarc...1354614884.html

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"It will be difficult for a man to understand law which connects causes and effects." Does that mean that the relation between cause and effect is not deterministic?
As you will hear in Berzin's explanation above, the (subtle) connections between causes and effects is the most difficult topic to understand and perceive directly. Even beings who attain Nirvana (Arhats) are unable to perceive all these connections, only the fully enlightened Buddhas can. So i guess that this quote doesn't talk about determination of this law, but more about the subtelty of its mechanism and that this is why ordinary beings can not understand it fully.
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#3 User is offline   Wangmo 

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:22 AM

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Does that mean that we have free will?

Yes and no. Yes, as we do have 100% free will in every moment. No, as we do not apply it, so technically speaking maybe we don't have it consciously.

For example: your computer crashes and the famous "blue screen" appears; you lost all the data you've been working on for a few hours. Karma was at work here ... There was a karmic seed, obviously, and then the right causes and conditions came together - yes, maybe you shouldn't have pressed the OK button in that window ...

So what do you do?
In theory, you could easily start to roll on the floor and laugh, you could dance, or just ignore it - nothing is limiting you, there is no predefined compulsory reaction. But, in practice, it is most probably that you will scream and curse and bang on the desk ... out of habit, national custom, family tradition, education, emotional upheaval etc.

So most of our actions are in a way automatic, but not because it must be so. We could think about each step and make a free decision, just normally we don't - either we don't even remember to do it, or we can't control our emotions well enough ...
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. (Bruce Lee)
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#4 User is offline   smokey 

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 02:04 AM

What does Lama Shenpen Rinpoche have to say regarding this matter?
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