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Mode Of Existence, The Two Realities

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#1 Shenpen.Rinpoche


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Posted 18 September 2009 - 08:10 PM

There are two realities: conventional and ultimate. To deny one or the other is an absurdity.
As we live in the conventional reality, created by our karma, we do experience the results, consequences, of what our mind has created in the past.
We can surely see the phenomena from the right perspective, we nevertheless interact with them, and we have to deal conventionally with them. With wisdom and compassion, but anyhow to deal with them.

When people write "all is empty, why do you bother, all is illusion, bla bla bla", there are badly trying to convince themselves, and it doesn't help the others to understand anything.

No, we can't say: "all is empty". Yes, we can say: "all is empty of inherent existence". It's not the same at all. The screen in front of me do has a type of existence which I can't deny. Yet, it is without any inherent existence. Yes, well, but still, there is a screen there, and I deal with its existence in a realistic way: 1. I don't deny its conventional existence, 2. I don't stuff the mind of other with the feeling that I am so superior because I read or heard that it's after all just an illusion.

The dream you had last night wasn't "non-existent"! It was far enough existent so that when you were dreaming you had experiences, thoughts about it, actions, reactions, emotions, etc. We can't say it wasn't existence. Yet, its mode of existence was "inter-dependant" with the causes created by our own mind.

It's like when people are saying that they are "meditating on emptiness". How can you do that? This statement is result of ignorance. You can't. You meditate on an inferential object, asking yourself how that object does exist, what is the mode of existence of that object. And you conclude that it's not self-inherently exist ie. existing in inter-dependence with the causes created. Created by our own mind ie. the energy created by my mind gives form and shape that I perceive.
First thousands of times, you come to an intellectual such conclusion. Then slowly you start to experience it, beyond words, till you spontaneously perceive the true nature of that and all phenomena directly, the ultimate reality.

Even then, when you come out of your direct contemplation of the true nature of phenomena, you do perceive only the conventional reality. Of course, your perception has changed, since you have direct experience of emptiness. But still. Only a fully Enlightened Being can perceive simultaneously the conventional and ultimate reality.

So, to repeat and repeat again, almost blindly: "all is illusion, all is mind, nothing exist" doesn't really help to understand the world of phenomena in which we are, and to help the others to understand on their turn the nature of reality. It's the interdependency of all phenomena we should wisely apprehend, the true nature of all phenomena as production of our mind, through the law of causality. And it's this understanding which helps our mind to progress towards Liberation and Enlightenment; and to help others.
Lama Shenpen Rinpoche
"For as long as space endures, And as long as living beings remain,
Until then may I too abide, To dispel the misery of the world." (Arya Shantideva)

#2 Michael John Smith

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 08:48 AM

If it is as you say inappropriate and unskillful to talk about meditating on emptiness as such, should we be as careful when we talk about meditating on impermanence also?

Would you say that our meditation should be more to do with paying attention to how things are conventionally rather than any real effort towards "trying to know them directly?"

Should we be practicing calming meditation and insight meditation in tandem rather than completely seperately and in formal sessions in order to gain the most from them?

Edited by Michael John Smith, 04 October 2009 - 08:48 AM.

#3 mirrormind



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Posted 11 October 2009 - 03:04 PM

Hi to all here,because I am new on this forum-my first post ;)

I think that if you open your mind and your heart you can allmoust feel both of realities.I have had no problems to separate or to join both of them in my way of existing and beeing.

#4 Sincerity



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Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:03 AM

When people tell me, "all is empty, why bother?" I also point out dreams.

I say something like, "In a dream, nothing you see, hear, smell, taste, touch, or often apprehend(like memories, this is good or bad, what you think about things) is real, you know that, but you still suffer, you still fear, you still build up good or bad qualities. Suffering is real, fear is real, your good or bad qualities are real, so don't be foolish. If you can bare the results of your actions happily then do them, if not, act in accordance with karma."

This isn't true through and through, because it presents suffering, fear, good, bad, as solid and real, not dependent on conditions, but it shows careless people who deny karma what's wrong with their understanding of emptiness.

Edited by Sincerity, 03 January 2011 - 10:06 AM.

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