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#1 Simona

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:48 PM

http://www.timesonli...icle1398491.ece
An eye as an artificial camera! Are the humans on the way to be changed into something artifical? What was the movie Matrix all about, mhm?

best regards,
simona

#2 frederic

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 12:07 PM

Bionic arm
So? What's wrong with that? If science and medecine can one day restore people's eyesight by means of electronic devices, don't you think it's a good thing? Don't you think thousands of blind people will be happy to recover sight or even discover what it is to actually see? I think that's fantastic news for those impaired who can benefit from such scientific breakthroughs... Hurray for science, in this case! :applause:

#3 Simona

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 12:22 PM

What do you say about this http://www.usc.edu/u...ories/8470.html ?

#4 frederic

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 04:21 PM

Interesting article, thank you Simona for pointing it out:
"Berger wants to open someone's skull; implant a tiny, densely packed silicon computer chip; connect it to the brain; and let it take over cognitive function previously lost due to disease or injury." :applause: ;)

#5 Simona

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 07:54 PM

I wonder how that tiny, densely packed silicon computer chip would "know" about the karmic imprints of the mind. As we are talking here about cognitive function...

#6 frederic

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 08:45 PM

I wonder how that tiny, densely packed silicon computer chip would "know" about the karmic imprints of the mind. As we are talking here about cognitive function...


That is not the point Simona. The point is that this may help beings otherwise permanently impaired, to once again be able to use these lost functions, and ultimately have a better quality of life, similar to the one they had prior to their accident/illness.

#7 Simona

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 09:01 PM

have a better quality of life

of a robot? When you lost something, even replaced, the life can never be the same again.

#8 frederic

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:18 AM

of a robot? When you lost something, even replaced, the life can never be the same again.


Just look into the previous link I sent you. Go to the bottom of the page, and watch the video. You will see how happy this man is to be able to control his bionic arm with his thoughts only. It's quite mind-blowing actually! He obviously cares not whether his new arm is not made from flesh and bone. All he cares about is to be able to once again feel like a complete human being. And I feel confident that the same will apply to most human beings, whether their amputated limbs are replaced by mechanical ones, their burnt retinas by electronic ones, or the lost masterpieces of their brains by computer chips... Probably somedays, some humans will be walking around looking more like robots, half organic, half cyborg, or even more of the latter than the former, as most of their aging, failing organs will have been replaced by mechanical ones. Kind of a scary thought, I must admit! It raises quite a few ethical questions... Science has always stirred controversy within the minds of men, and it will continue to do so, undoubtedly! Happy New Year everyone! ;)

#9 frederic

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:00 AM

Completely amazing:
The Bionic Arm Fact Sheet

"Has the technology been used successfully?
The bionic arm technology has been very successful so far in both significantly improving the function of artificial limbs as well as allowing the skin to be reinnervated with nerves form the arm. The first patient to undergo the new procedure, Jesse Sullivan, has experienced significant improvements in the functioning of his prosthetic arms. While previously moving his artificial arms was slow and cumbersome, today he is able to do many of the routine tasks he took for granted before his accident, including putting on socks, shaving, eating dinner, taking out the garbage, carrying groceries and vacuuming."

#10 Simona

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 05:25 AM

All he cares about is to be able to once again feel like a complete human being.

"Feel like." I call myself human, because of the human body and the mind arranged in specific - human - mode. When one part of the alive body is cut off, the feeling of unattachment arises. When the alive part is then after replaced with an artifical, cold, mechanical part, you acknowledge that something what you call human can be replaced with something non-human, non-alive. And then, you can comfort yourself, that you still have got that specific - human - mind, which after all can make things to move. The difference is that human arm does live, whereas an artifical just moves. With a bionic brain, it goes the same...it is an artifical mind, which can move things, do some even high - structured operations and processes, imitates alive things, but it is not alive itself. Creating the artifical things (bodies, minds) is creating a parallel world, which may be is a future destiny for the planet Earth, which is polluted more and more and in this way humans are started to adapt themselves to be able to live on ( better "to move") in this world...Happy New Year, too.

#11 frederic

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 09:20 AM

"Feel like." I call myself human, because of the human body and the mind arranged in specific - human - mode.

Simona, no matter how much organic can be replaced by synthetic components in a human body, it is still the human mind which is behind it all...

When one part of the alive body is cut off, the feeling of unattachment arises.

What feeling of unattachment? I think most people regret having lost their limbs, their eyesight or cognitive functions enabled by parts of their brains... There is no feeling of unattachment, but there is suffering for having lost what made them humanly complete...

When the alive part is then after replaced with an artifical, cold, mechanical part, you acknowledge that something what you call human can be replaced with something non-human, non-alive.

As long as it can improve the lives of thousands of human beings, I encourage it!

And then, you can comfort yourself, that you still have got that specific - human - mind, which after all can make things to move. The difference is that human arm does live, whereas an artifical just moves. With a bionic brain, it goes the same...it is an artifical mind, which can move things, do some even high - structured operations and processes, imitates alive things, but it is not alive itself.

A computer chip used to replace a damaged part of a human's brain is not the mind itself. I consider it more like the hardware which once again allows the software (in this case, the human mind) to have the human body function to the fullest of its capabilities. Whether the hardware is made of living tissue or electronic circuits, it is still just "hardware". The goal of scientists here is not to replace the human mind by an electronic mind (if there can be such a thing?) but to allow some human beings to regain what they have lost. Tell me that it wouldn't be wonderful for someone who, after a car accident, has become a complete "vegetable", unable to communicate or recognise his/her loved ones anymore, to come out of this vegetative state and be able to start over a new life?

Creating the artifical things (bodies, minds) is creating a parallel world, which may be is a future destiny for the planet Earth, which is polluted more and more and in this way humans are started to adapt themselves to be able to live on ( better "to move") in this world...


for me, this has nothing to do with the world becoming more and more polluted. It has to do with science and medecine working together and making new things possible which are quite amazing in fact. Look at it this way: 100 years ago, when you lost a limb, eyesight or cognitive functions of your brain, that was it. You couldn't regain this ever again. The body was "damaged" for life. Nowadays, it is not so anymore. And I believe many physically or cognitively impaired people are rejoicing... And I'm rejoicing for them! ;)

#12 Guest_Felix_*

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 02:46 PM

Good evening,

agreeing with both, I see another interesting point about the "cyborgs" à¯Ã‚¿Â½“ the possibilities for the future development. Even though implants are nowadays meant to improve the quality of one's life, the development of medicine goes hand in hand with the development of other lucrative branches of economy, making human being with his artificial extensions quicker, stronger and more efficient. Machines have precedence over a fragile human being. This could, potentially, develop into a black scenario with "super-beings" and a philosophical dilemma: who serves whom à¯Ã‚¿Â½“ the changing mind to effective machines or vice versa. I believe that the direction of the development depends on the ethical values of the society.

I agree with the benefits of the development of medicine, using all the possible tools to help. On the other hand, the development that is not based on a clear ethical basis, might end up differently than it has started, recurrently effecting the mind as well.

Respectfully,
Felix




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