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subtle consciousness and bardo state

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Tashi Delek!

 

Can you tell something about a “bridge” between a person in bardo state and a person in a “usual” state of living? How are the mantras and prayers transmitted to the consciousness of the late person – does one need special realizations or is sincere engagement enough? Does the “bridge” between the two consciousnesses exist on a subtle level of our mind? Does the subtle level refer to the central channel? How much are we generally in touch with the subtle consciousness? Only at the time of death and in case of high realizations? Can we catch just a glimpse of it without realizing higher states, without being able to maintain it?

 

All the best, Masa

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Guest lodreu

Dear members,

 

This notion of bridge, contact and control of the energies brings us back to an honest vision of our personal level and capacities. Many practices exists on different levels, and depending on our level we will really be able to do the practice, or just try to do it.

During the bardo states, to really get in contact and help effectively the consciousness of a dead person you need, on a personal level, to have some realizations, to really be able to control and dissolve your energies into the central channel. Otherwise, you create a positive energy, by your recitations, prayers and dedication, with the wish that it will influence the consciousness, but without really to be sure that the contact will exist.

 

At a beginner level, we get in contact with our subtle consciousness usually at the moment to fall asleep and at one point of the death process. Unfortunately, due to the perturbations, and lack of control of these moments, for they are unexpected, we do not really get some experience which would bring us to further realizations. For this we first need to control the mind and appease it. With this first control of our perturbations, we can to try to control the support of these perturbations, the different energies. By combining mental quietness and Vajrayana practices we can stop all perturbations and bring the mind in a level closer to the experience of emptiness.

Nevertheless it will at first be a glimpse, which can be reproduced and enriched by further experiences and stability in the control of these energies.

 

Without the basis, Shine, it's illusory to think we can work on the real control of the energies and do further practices. Namely at the best they can lead to reinforce the ego and pride, which is the creation of more obstacles :roll: .

And it's trough the glimpses that the control can be more stable and bring us to further and subtle states of realizations. :)

 

Best regards,

lodreu

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Tashi delek.

 

Is there any hierarchy or gradation of subtlety of our senses? Is sense of seeing, which during dissolution of earth element dissolves first, more rough then sense of smelling which through dissolution of air element dissolves later in the process? 8) In Slovene language the words for ‘smelling’, for ‘ghost and for ‘mind’ are the same, one has to guess from the context which is which. Does invigoration of the sense of smell in the state of Bardo mean that the sense of smell is more sophisticated, somehow different then our usual coarse perception?

 

I guess this is not an important question from the point of practice, at least I don’t see a practical value of it, it’s just a curiosity. But if you see it, please tell. :)

 

All the best, Khandro

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Hello,

 

If I may jump in again, :), I would say that it is almost self-evident that sight, the sense of seeing is the most delicate of all the senses. Imagine, if you were blind, how many impressions you would be unfamiliar with - terrible. :cry:

I can't completely agree with you that "duh" has the same meaning for the mind, the sense of smell and the spirit (and the ghost). If we are terminologically correct, "duh" is very rearly used as "the mind" - usually: "um, razum, ratio", from that point of view I associate "duh" as the state of our minds or spirits (ali celo ozračje, klima, vzdušje...)

I dont really know what bardo state is :D , you should explain it to me first :P , but I will answer your question anyway :wink:; when austere, contemplative, serene and peaceful etc. all our senses are hightened and pliable - first we get even too sensitive to everything and everyone :x around us, but in time the mind becomes stronger, stiller, and increasingly detached... :)

 

I hope that answers your Q.

Have a nice day, T. Khyenrab

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I just remembered:

Correct Slovene orthography:

duh not= sense of smell

sense of smell = vonj

duhati = to smell (the flowers)

vonjati = to scent (or smell)... (the flowers smell sweet)

;):)

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Of course I simplified things a little bit when talking about ‘duh’. What was interesting to me was relation between different context, combined in Slovene language. We could make a more exact etymological and culturological expertise about the topic of mind and spirituality in English and Slovene. I won’t do it. I would just note that ‘mind’ (usually translated in Slovene as ‘um’) surpasses rational discourse and that ‘spirit’ and ‘spirituality’ (‘duh’ and ‘duhovnost’) is burdened with Christian connotation of this word, as ‘mind’ is burdened with scientific connotations. In fact, both origin in European Christian tradition, both were changing their meaning together with a gradual process of separation of rational aspect of mind from its aspirational aspect. It went along with history of science, changes of position of Church and other streams. So, nowadays mind is a cultural term, not universal. But originally it was standing between both present terms.

 

Best regards, Khandro

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Hello,

Yes, I get your point, agree with it completely, etc... Thanks for info about the bardo state!

But much more important - didn't you notice, I made a terrible horrific mistake!

 

sense of smell not= vonj

sense of smell = voh!

 

Some people are so meticulous - and if they happen to be Buddhists - even God Himself can't help them! :D

 

Best regards, T. Khyenrab

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