Jump to content
Dharmaling Forums
Sign in to follow this  
draftsman

Self Cherishing Mind

Recommended Posts

Good morning ;) ,

 

It seems that when we try to observe our mind, we can eventually notice "gross" aspects of tricks our ego is playing with us. Yet, since ego seems to be so strong, even in this self-critical reflection, the ego is already present, saying to ourselves how good we are for being so self critical.

 

The question would be: when we indulge in such self-reflecting dialectics (a sort of analytical meditation, I guess) does this represent spiritual progress (since we make effort to notice ego tricks, yet are unable to completely irradicate them through analysis, and instead ego trick surface on a new level), or is it all just a waste of time (i.e. the ego is just trying to grab it's tail - a fruitless game intended to give ourselves the false feeling of spiritual progress). If the latter answer is correct, I wonder, what is the right way to progress through analysis on our level, when we are not yet developed enough to out-root the ego completely.

 

Thank You ;) .

 

Best regards,

Draftsman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sound like a lazy little question draftsman  B) ?

 

If you have no boddhicitta, thus you have a selfcherishing mind and whatevever you do IS anyhow stained by it, so you take it or leave it, you work with it or relax, take an ice-cream, and never meditate again….whatever you chose, according to my understanding of karma, must give a result…even a simple wish not to have to put up with this selfcherishing mind must give a result…and it might be a better result than being reborn as a salmonella in a big box of ice-cream...(speaking of the selfcherishing mind   :angel: )

 

Sbd. asked kind of a simillar question at one Q&A session recently:

 

Q: Geshe.la how do I know when what I do, be it practice (of meditation, 6 perfections) or general actions, is motivated by bodhicitta or my self-cherising mind, since often I think I am doing sth virtuous, but often there is some selfcherishing element involved, so how do I know, what should I do, when should I act and when not?

 

A: That's easy. Don't waste your time worring about it. You have no bodhicitta!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A: That's easy. Don't waste your time worring about it. You have no bodhicitta!

This Geshe is a Buddha to know who has Bodhicitta and who has not? :blink:

 

Yes, at the end of each day, it is good to do a retrospective of the day, and see if our actions of body, speech, and mind were correctly motivated or not.

Of course, till we have advanced level of practice, mental quietness and Compassion, our mind in tainted by egocentrism and self-cherishing. But to be aware of it, and analysing how different it could be, more centered on the others' benefit, etc is a good thing, not a waste of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This Geshe is a Buddha to know who has Bodhicitta and who has not? :blink:

Not being a Buddha myself, I cannot confirm nor reject it.

Nonetheless, I find no fault in Geshe.la's reasoning. Selfcherishing mind (more or less wild/tamed) and Bodhicitta exclude one another;  if your mind is Bodhicitta, how could you wander if your motivation was selfish or not? One or the other – Rinpoche, did I misuderstand this point on Bodhicitta?   Can a drop of Bodhicitta coexist with my generally crazy selfcherishing mind? Can I be a Bodhisattva with just a little craving for my ice-cream?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reasoning is a book one, not taking in consideration the progressive spiritual development of people. It's easy to say: "that is baaaad", because it's written in a monastic book meant for monks or nuns. It's another thing to work on it in a daily society life! Many more parameters have to be taken in consideration. Much deeper methods can be developed and applied from the Vajrayana...

 

It is good to wonder if you were selfish or not. Many time people think they are acting for the good of others while in fact being only concerned by themselves.

 

Bodhicitta doesn't fall on you at once, and forever! It's a process, from altruism, to Compassion, to Bodhicitta for a while, and for good.

 

While developing Bodhicitta, you can still wish for an ice-cream. An ice-cream is not harmful for the others. Craving for it might arise, be recognised, and tamed progressively on the basis that it's a disturbance to the mind - the craving, not simply the ice-cream ;) - and that disturbance is taking you away from full awareness for all sentient beings.

When eating an ice cream makes you happy and brings a certain bliss to you, because you know how to transform all that, then it helps you to help the others, no? :-//

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When eating an ice cream makes you happy and brings a certain bliss to you, because you know how to transform all that, then it helps you to help the others, no? :-//

Thank you Rinpoche for an inspiring answer! This is the method, thank you! But it is as you say developing Bodhicitta, I would not need an ice-cream for bliss if I had bodhicitta, I would help without that ice-cream...

 

I do understand it won't fall on me at once, but if you say it won't fall on me forever then the very foundations of my reasoning are rotten; for me that little element was kind of crucial to 'my peace of mind'; if bodhicitta can come and go, I again have the grounds to constantly check (with my own mind to which little fragile stability maybe sometimes comes, and then fast goes) and doubt (other) persons' motivation…(I am sorry draftsman I have now wondered away from your question)

 

Could you tell us more about it, Rinpoche, I find it a serious challenge from practitioner’s perspective…

 

At what stage of one's practice can one have bodhicitta that comes and goes, what are the qualities of such a practitioner, why does bodhicitta go (lack of merits or wisdom or sth else?),  what is the mind like when bodhicitta was experienced but has now gone?...

 

Is the black/white Bodhicitta (ie the one that pervades, becomes your mind and cannot go away) only in the mind of a Buddha? Is thus Bodhicitta (in the absolute terms but only in the aspect of motivation, excluding its wisdom apect) of a Bodhisattva different than that of a Buddha? If so, are then Bodhisattvas even a valid object of refuge? (I've been told yes, but how come?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning

The question would be: when we indulge in such self-reflecting dialectics (a sort of analytical meditation, I guess) does this represent spiritual progress (since we make effort to notice ego tricks, yet are unable to completely irradicate them through analysis, and instead ego trick surface on a new level), or is it all just a waste of time (i.e. the ego is just trying to grab it's tail - a fruitless game intended to give ourselves the false feeling of spiritual progress). If the latter answer is correct, I wonder, what is the right way to progress through analysis on our level, when we are not yet developed enough to out-root the ego completely.

The mere indulgence in self-reflection on its own isn't spiritual progress (yet) - otherwise all those people who lie on couches and tell their troubles to their psychiatrist would be spiritually advanced ... :laugh:

What is necessary is to TRAIN the mind. Did you ever teach a young dog to sit? Over and over again, until it learns. Mind isn't that much different. You can't say that you are not advanced enough to train your own mind to sit when you wish, it's just a matter of persistence. :P

And while I am at this dog-training comparison - dogs are normally trained best if you give them a doggie-treat every time they do it right. It works better than using punishment. Mind isn't so much different here either, at least mine isn't - it likes better to be trained in a positive and nice way. I think it is no problem if you are happy whenever you overcome one of your inner obstacles - as long as you only rejoice in that and don't develop the idea that you are oh so GREAT ... :-//

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am beginning to see that what we call Bodhicitta is present in a non-egotistical mind - we cannot be motivated in cherishing others if we are concerned only with cherishing the self.

 

This self analysis being talked about is I think the awakening, non-conceptional mind looking to conceptionalise again because there is still some ego-clinging there. But there is nothing wrong with this because as Rinpoche points out it is useful to check our situation from time to time with regard to whether we are caring about others or our own ego.

 

Doing without ego is not really doing at all, but being. When the ego is not present it is said we are resting in pure awareness - being in the oneness, which our awakening spirituality tells us is the nature of reality. On a conventional (conceptionalised) level there are many different buddhas just as there are many different limited beings but on a pure awareness (non-conceptional) level there is only one Buddha or Brahmin or whatever we previously conceptionalised - we are in fact one entity - an entity which is empty yet pregnant with form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...