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"reason Is Not Established" (Rtags Ma Grub) Vs "no Pervasion" (Ma Khyab)

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Here we can see different relations between subject, predicate and reason in 2 cases:

 

1)    Reason is not established (rtags ma grub)

A: Sound is impermanent because it is made

B: Reason is not established (rtags ma grub) [i.e. sound is not made]

A: Sound is made because it is arisen from causes and conditions

 

In "rtags ma grub" case we challenge the relations between subject and reason. Opponent says that reason is irrelevant to subject. In further debate we should put that reason to the place of predicate and have to find another reason.

 

 

2)    No pervasion (ma khyab)

A: Sound is impermanent because it is made

B: There is no pervasion (ma khyab) [i.e. not everything which is made is impermanent]

A: There is pervasion (khyab pa yod par thal). Impermanent and made are mutually inclusive - or synonymous (don gcig).

 

In "ma khyab" case we challenge the relations between predicate and reason. Reason have to be either a subset of predicate or mutually inclusive with predicate, and in the case of negation reason and predicate should be mutually exclusive.

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Negation case means here that we have predicate with negation. For example:

 

A: Color of Buddha Amitayus is not white because it is red

B: There is no pervasion (ma khyab) [i.e. not everything which is red is not white]

A: There is pervasion (khyab pa yod par thal). White and red are mutually exclusive (‘ga ba).

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