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Wangmo

Faults of other Bodhisattvas ...

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Tashi Delek!

 

"If compelled by your own afflictions

You speak of the faults of other Bodhisattvas.

You yourself will degenerate.

Therefore, never to mention the faults of those

Who have entered the Mahayana path

Is the practice of the Bodhisattva."

 

Does this verse only refer to beings who have already realised Emptiness, or does it also refer to our fellow practitioners?

Thank you. :)

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Tashi Delek Wangmo,

 

I believe it refers to all beings who have entered the Mahayana path, but when one has directly realized emptiness, he or she probably has less chances of falling (although he or she must still practice caution) because from that point on, I believe he or she is aware of how not to create any further karmas...

Best Regards :)

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Tashi delek, :hello:

[quote name = 'Wangmo']Does this verse only refer to beings who have already realised Emptiness, or does it also refer to our fellow practitioners?
Thank you. :)[/quote]

Also a fellow practitioner can be someone who has realized Emptiness, sometimes it is not even a a person who is manifesting as a practitioner, not even as Buddhist. A Bodhisattva can take on any form.
So we should be careful with critisizing anybody.

This quotion you mentioned refers to everybody who entered in the mahayana by having develop Bodhicitta in his/ her mindstream, even if it happend just for one second.

But now comes the question:
Some people are commiting obviously faults, doing bad things to others, should we close now our eyes ? Should we keep silent, because it is someone who developed Bodhicitta? What does it exactly mean not to critisize others ?

These are the questions I many times asked myself.

I came to the point that this quotion has also to do lots of with pure view, we should practice pure view towards others, especially to the ones who entered the mahayana path.

In my understanding this quotions means at its first place, that what we should avoid is talking bad behind the back of someone else ( out of aversion or out of jealousy, desire for useless chatter or out of other negative motivations ) or to attac openly with critisism someone else, hurting by words.
We should generally becareful with that, as everybody could be a bodhisattva.

And if a person is a more advanced Bodhisattva by having Bodhicitta motivation all the time or and having emptiness realisation, than his/her deeds are always very pure, leaded by wisdom and compassion, EVEN THOUGHT his/her deeds may appear very strange, and worth to critisize to all others. ( Read the stories about the Mahasiddhas )
It can also be that just you see it as something bad, because you have a bad state of mind, you are projecting. So we have to be very careful, it is easy to commit by critisizing, having wrong views about someone very bad and heavy karma.

It is said that the karmic consequenzes grow in the folling way, I mean the persons towards whom you commit an action:
ordinary person, relatives, mother/father, dharmarelatives, gurus and saints and at last the root guru.

Now comes another point:
If you know or witnessed that someone did really a bad thing, of course one of the bodhisattva vows clearly sayes we should do something against it, so we cannot stopp our eyes, just because he or she entered the mahayana path or he or she could be a bodhisattva manifesting as non buddhist.

What are you doing when you witness in a center for instance, that a Lama is misusing sexually his female students, and you see lots of women crying afterwards or very young girls ( 13, 14 years old )getting pregnant ?....because all this happened already here in Europe.
Or you see someone teaching or giving empowerment from whom you definetly know that he or she has not the lineage for teaching for such and such thing, giving such and such empowerment. Are you then closing your eyes and saying "I am not allowed to critisize anybody who entered mahayana "? Difficult, isn`t it ?

And with this seemingly contradiction between "don´t say anything and think anything bad about another person and act when someone is doing a bad, unvirtous thing", we come to the pure view, how to apply pure view in yor every day life.

I heared a very good thing about pure view from Dzogsar Khyentse Rinpoche:

"Pure view has to do a lot with the idea of emptiness., because if you understand emptiness than it is basically knowing whatever you experience, see is all your interpretation, it is only your perception. When you can accept that, not only intellectually but also practically than every time you make a judgement, expecially concering your guru, then your whole mind will tell you: "But this is only my perception".
If you can get this kind of idea this is pure perception, very close to pure perception.
In this way accusation, blame complain and all this will be reduce, slowly in this way you will get purer.
Pure perception should be taken as an practice. :!:
It means you have to get used to pure view. If we remind ourselves that my vow, my aim is for the enlightenment, than you will train in emptiness, training in that that all those perceptions are just your perceptions."

From hearing these informations, and others I drawed for me the following conclusion:

When I witness a situation where someone is hurting someone, I try to have immediatly pure view. In a way:
"It SEEMS for me to be a bad thing, but it could be just my wrong perception, that I am impure in my perception, and this person could be a Bodhisattva. He is seemingly causing harm to that person, but who knows maybe this is the only way the person can be helped for a longer time, it will lead to something beneficial.

But I will go to the person and tell him that I do not find it right what he or she is doing, but I will not do it with a state of mind, that you are bad, doing a bad thing definetly, 100%.
I will go there and say something because it SEEMS for me that this person is doing a bad thing.
This , that it could be just my impure perception will, prevent me to get angry ( hopefully) and to draw too fast conclusions about someone. It will make me more to analyze a persons, to question, instead of immediatly critisizing. I will be also more careful how I talk about this person to others, because my perception could be wrong.
In stead of saying this person is such and such, I will say for me it SEEMS that this person is such and such.......

This is a great difference, because my mental attitude is more open, more concered with that my perception could be faulty unless I am not 100% clearsighted.
And I will have not so much the drive to talk bad about this person, because he "could be" a bodhisattva.
So all this doesn´t mean that I will close my eyes and say nothing when it SEEMS that something wrong is happening.

With all my best wishes
Csillag

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Should we keep silent, because it is someone who developed Bodhicitta? What does it exactly mean not to critisize others ?

If someone has developed supreme Bodhicitta, whatever he or she does is of the highest benefit to others.

I believe you go beyond criticizm when you develop loving-kindness for all. Actually, the realization of equanimity should do it! (the potential to criticize should vanish at this time)

 

Criticizing others must be an attitude which is focused on the mistakes of others and then pointing them out with a negative mind. Not criticizing would mean to first have a positive attitude and to focus on the positive side of things. When mistakes are made which can lead to negativity and suffering, one should point them out with the thought of benefiting others, with genuine care and affection.

 

Best regards,

Khyenrab

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Tashi delek, :hello:

 

I believe you go beyond critizism when you develop loving-kindness for all. Actually, the realization of equanimity should do it!

Khyenrab

 

It depends on what you understand under critizism......

 

There is positve and negative critizism ,

There is difference between

1.saying something in order to correct somebody, I mean can out of love and compassion to scold someone, out of Bodhicitta, like a mother scolds her child.

2.when you critisize somene because this person was upsetting you, there is not a loving intent towards that person when you say to him what you find to be wrong.

 

Concerning going "beyond" critisizm, what does this really mean ?

If you go beyond something it means you are not anymore within the sphere of duality, in the sphere of labels. But it doesn`t mean you won`t anymore critisize.

 

To my knowledge sometimes even the Dalai Lama scolds and critisizes, of course with a different state of mind than ordinary persons.

Even when your guru is working with you, he will scold, critisize you in order to help you to loose your grip for your ego....even thought he is beyond critism, beyond all notions such as duality and non duality.....

 

With all my best wishes

Csillag

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Ups, soory Khyenrab,

 

I was to quickly replying to your post out of hurry.

I did not noticed what you wrote beneath.

 

Actually in this way we mean the same, just using different words ;-)

 

 

With all my best wishes

Csillag

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Oups, wrong interpretation of the question alltogether Soooorry :lol: Yes I believe that it means that Boddhisatvas should not engage in criticizing what they interpret as the faults of other Bodhisattvas, even if the latter have not directly realized emptiness, because as Khyenrab and Csillag point it out, these might not be actual faults but acts made out of loving kindness. Thus, these might seem to you like causes for further negativities, when in fact not the least bit! I believe the sentence

"If compelled by your own afflictions"
is essential here, because it would mean that it is your own untrained mind which is projecting the negativities on a situation which will create quite the contrary...

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Guest Ani.Chödrön

Tashi Delek,

 

a few personal practical experiences: i found out that the mind training practices ( http://www.dharmaling.org/Encyclopedia/op=...nt/tid=131.html ) can help me very much to see the others in a positive light, keeping the wish to help in my heart. And that the ones whose behaviour seems to be a bit :evil: are the most effective training masters. :wink:

 

In fact, i find all that you said helpful: developing Wisdom, because it changes the perspective; firm decisions, specially vows, because they bring responsibility and give strenght of determination not to give up, no matter what the effort might be; and Bodhicitta and loving-kindness practices, which soften and open the mind. :D

 

But in the West we are not encouraged and raised in this way: how many people do you know who don't want to talk negative things about others but rather expose positive qualities? :( So we have to turn against the stream, and follow the Ones who know better. !:!

 

When a particular action can be seen as wrong (or just a manifastation of such, in a case of a Guru), but not the whole being, then the mind can remain undisturbed, willing to benefit in any possible way. It's neither putting the head in the sand nor generating negative mind, it's the middle way. This pure view in Buddhism is something unique and excellent , isn't it? 8)

 

Best regards,

chödrön

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