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Csillag

Pratimoksha vows and Vajrasattva

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Tashi delek :hello:

 

Today I was reading about Vajrasattva, I was reading the following:

 

And reciting 100,000 Vajrasattva mantras can completely purify all negative karma. It can purify the ten non-virtuous actions and even the broken root vows of a fully ordained monk or nun. Even if a fully ordained person has received the four defeats by killing a human being, stealing, having sexual intercourse and telling the big lie (saying that they have realizations when they know that they do not), they can completely purify these heavy negative karmas by reciting 100,000 Vajrasattva mantras.

 

Hmmm, then why it is said that the lay vows can`t be repaired ?( It is said even if we try after having broken the vows to keep them again pure, we just collect more heavy karma)It seems that with Vajrasattva they can be repaired.......or do I misunderstand here something, like repairing is not the same as purifying ?

 

With all my best wishes

Csillag

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Tashi Delek,

Hmmm, then why it is said that the lay vows can`t be repaired ?
If the consequences of braking a vow can be purified by the long practice of Vajrasattva, it doesn't implies that the vow itself is repaired. Once the action (of braking a vow) is done; it is done. You can then only act on the consequences it will have.

 

The practice of Vajrasattva does purifies lot of negative karma, consequences of negatives actions, over years and years or lives and lives... based of course on the motivation and the strengh of our practice ie. not like a magical wand which would clean up ALL your negativities, and 'hop' you can continu to engage into negative actions!

 

All the very best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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Tashi delek dear Lama Shenphen Rinpoche :hello:

 

You can then only act on the consequences it will have.

 

But this sounds for me like it can`t be really purified.....what consequences you mean , especially within the context of a person who would really regret having broken ones vow and doing lots of Vajrasattva afterwards?

 

With all my best wishes

Csillag

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But this sounds for me like it can`t be really purified.....what consequences you mean , especially within the context of a person who would really regret having broken ones vow and doing lots of Vajrasattva afterwards?

 

Compare taking a vow with receiving a clay pot. That pot is unique; you can't have two of this in your lifetime. It is meant for you to accumulate more water then you could just with your bare hands. If it's too heavy, you can give it back; but it has to be in one piece.

If you break it, you can't fix it. It's broken. You can only deal with the fact that you can't gather so much water anymore, and with the negative karma to have broken something so precious.

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shnphen

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Tashi delek dear Lama Shenphen Rinpoche :hello:

 

. You can only deal with the fact that you can't gather so much water anymore, and with the negative karma to have broken something so precious.

 

So it would mean that one cannot accumulate anymore that much merit as before?

And this karma of breaking the vow can`t be purified totally?

 

So what is then purified by Vajrasattva, the accumulation of that negative deed ?( I mean the negativity getting bigger and bigger with time by itself )

 

I know a story about a men who murdered his mother, regret it, became monc, established a monastery, became an Arhat.

Even thought his meditation was very good he was not able to purify all karmic traces of the mother murdering. so he was reborn in the hell realm where he would have anyway got reborn because of his negative deed.

For few moments he had to experience the immense heat of the hell, immediatly he remembered his monastery, his wish that he could heat his cold monastery for his freezing moncs. Then he said to the hell guerd: "oh it is much more hotter than I thought". He got then murdered by the hell guard and got reborn in one of the deva realms.

 

Because he was regreting the deed of having murdered ones own mother, and because he was purifying this deed during his lifetime, this negative karma got weakened, in a way that just for a certain short period he had to bear the suffering of the hot hell.

 

Is it the same/ similar situation with someone who has broken vows but regret it and engaged in purifying that act during lifetime?

 

With all my best wishes

Csillag

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Tashi Delek,

If the consequences of braking a vow can be purified by the long practice of Vajrasattva, it doesn't implies that the vow itself is repaired. Once the action (of braking a vow) is done; it is done. You can then only act on the consequences it will have.

Does this also refer to Bodhisattva vows? Some of them seem to be formulated as an ideal one has to strive for o:). Surely there is a limit one cannot cross ;-}, but perhaps not so easy to define as in other vows :< (like in a vow of "no stealing").

 

At the web site http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resource...attva_vows.html (I am not sure it is a valid source of information), one of the listed Bodhisattva vows is e.g. "doing little to benefit other sentient beings" or an even better example "following the mind of desire". Difficult to define the breach in these two :<.

 

Also, at the bottom of the quoted web site there are instructions on how to restore broken Bodhisattva vows {..}. Does this mean that Boddhisattva vows are not "lost for life" if broken, or maybe it depends on which Boddhisattva vow is in question?

 

Best regards,

 

Draftsman

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Tashi Delek,

Does this also refer to Bodhisattva vows?

The Bodhisattva vows can be renewed with a ceremonie or by taking them again. They work differently as the "pratimoksa vows".

We surely bare the karmic consequences of braking them though.

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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