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frederic

Poisonous meal?

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Tashi Delek,

 

In this website in "History of Buddhism", it is said, speaking about Shakyamouni Buddha:

 

"After having given all teachings that can be given, He knowingly eats a poisonous meal, gives last advice, shows once again all stages of meditation to His disciples, lies down in the lion posture, and passes into Mahaparinirvana."

 

Now, this is the first time I read that Shakyamouni Buddha actually commited "suicide"... According to all my previous sources (mostly Internet), He had died of natural causes... So I must admit I am a bit confused :? . This reminds me of the movie "Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter and Spring", in which the old Buddhist monk commits suicide by immolation, a gesture which I didn't understand at the time, and well, still don't... :lol: 8O ...

 

Can anyone please tell me more about this? :roll:

 

Best regards,

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Tashi Delek.

 

Everyone creates his own causes when and how and where...will die. Those causes are created without one being aware of them, nor being aware of their creation. So, usually we do not know when and how...will we die. When some non-enlightened being, which means that he do not see or understand clearly the causes which will bring his death, decides to die, to commit a suicide, it is an act of giving up, of misunderstanding events, or sometimes of an accumulated bank of knowledge, of blindness.

As the Buddha is completely enlightened, sees this and other worlds and directly sees how things are in each moment, in one word fully aware, fully conscious, there was no other death for him as a conscious one. I understand his death not as commiting a suicide, yet as being fully aware of the events in which he died as a human being.

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

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Tashi delek,

 

Just some precisions:

Everyone creates his own causes

Not a Buddha.

 

Those causes are created without one being aware of them, nor being aware of their creation.

I'm no sure of exactely what you mean here. But surely a Buddha is aware of all the causes created by the beings. As well as a yogi is aware of the causes he is creating himself.

 

So, usually we do not know when and how...will we die.

Usually, yes... Which means that clairvoyant beings, beings having certain Realisations, can know when and how their body will die.

 

I understand his death not as commiting a suicide, yet as being fully aware of the events in which he died as a human being.

Indeed, the Buddha didn't commit suicide at all, because He doesn't create karma anymore, and is not subject to karma at all; therefore, what we do perceive of the Buddha's life is based on the causes 'we' have accumulated. It was time, Buddha Shakyamuni knew it, that is sure. And He followed the course of History, created by all beings around Him.

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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Tashi Delek, Lama Shenphen Rinpoche.

 

Thank you a lot for deeper explanation. :)

 

Those causes are created without one being aware of them, nor being aware of their creation.

I'm no sure of exactely what you mean here.

I meant that I do not remember the causes, which I have been created in the past and by which I will die some day in the future = without one being aware of them. Maybe it is not just one cause, maybe there are more of them connected between. So, if I would be aware of the one cause, this would not give me a whole picture = nor being aware of their creation.

 

Best regards,

 

Simona {|:)

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I meant that I do not remember the causes, which I have been created in the past and by which I will die some day in the future

Not being aware yourself of these causes shall not bring you to generalize it to all beings ;)

 

We should be very precise and careful in our "Dharma statements", so to do not create confusion in the understanding of others :)

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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Tashi Delek, Lama Shenphen Rinpoche.

 

I will be more careful. Thank you to pointed out. :)

 

"Written words can be a source of entanglement as well as of liberation; unless the right person takes it at the right time, the elixir turns to poison. Please be careful." Okuda Y. The Discourse on the Inexhaustible Lamp of the Zen School, by Zen Master Torei Enji.

 

But this could be a whole new topic.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Simona {|:)

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Indeed, the Buddha didn't commit suicide at all, because He doesn't create karma anymore, and is not subject to karma at all; therefore, what we do perceive of the Buddha's life is based on the causes 'we' have accumulated. It was time, Buddha Shakyamuni knew it, that is sure. And He followed the course of History, created by all beings around Him.

 

Tashi Delek, venerable Rinpoche,

 

That is why I wrote the word suicide between "", as I didn't mean it like any regular suicide... Today at the Dharma center, one of the practitionners told me that it was also said that Shakyamuni Buddha had died of indigestion... I guess that's a softer way to say it :? Also I asked the Lama of the congregation and he noded no, that Buddha had not died from knowingly taking poison (but in my own confusion I asked him if He had died from drinking it, so maybe I got him confused as well...).

 

Do all Buddhist lineages agree that Shakyamuni Buddha knowingly ate a poisonous meal in order to put an end to his human life?

 

Best regards :)

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Tashi delek,

 

Do all Buddhist lineages agree that Shakyamuni Buddha knowingly ate a poisonous meal in order to put an end to his human life?

- I don't know if 'all' agree. I have heard the same story often, from different traditions.

 

Indeed, Shakyamuni Buddha ate a meal with some mushrooms (something called "pig foot", or something like that). And from that He passed away.

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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