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bardo helpers

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Tashi delek.

 

are there any beings (or entities) who help the spirit of the deceased to go through the bardos and enter another world or life? "esotherically" speaking, those would be "guardian angels" or something like that.

or is it so that after death you are simply on your own and nobody helps you? :?

 

where could I read more about this?

 

thank you for your answers.

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Guest Ani.Chödrön

Tashi Delek,

 

Buddhas and Bodhisattvas never abandon a sentient being, they are constantly acting for the benefit of all, in all possible ways. !:! (They could be compared to the guardian angels, Mother Mary or Jesus, speaking from the Christian perspective.)

To our misfortune we usually don’t perceive them. Therefore the existence of the Lamas is very important – how could we ever receive any real help without them?

 

As in “this side of life”, so in the bardo aspect of our path. Buddhas and Boddhisatvas are here, but will we recognise them? :maybe:

Lama can guide us safely through the storms of the dying process. Even if a Lama cannot be at our deathbed, it is still possible to lean on our Root Lama's guidance. l-) We see our Guru as a Buddha; Buddhas are omnipresent. We can always rely on Lama's beneficial presence. This way our confused mind can lean on the Enlightened Consciousness. 8)

 

But we can benefit the deceased ones too: with prayers for their good rebirth. {..}

 

Nevertheless, any help is more effective, if a being is acustomed to the process of dying, not being afraid of the tremendous changes one is going through.

 

where could I read more about this?

 

You can try some of the books from the Dharmaling's library, maybe Advice on Dying by His Holiness the Dalai Lama or Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living and Dying or the commentary on the Tibetan Book of the Dead by Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche and Francesca Fremantle.

 

All the very best,

chödrön

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dear ani chodron,

 

thank you very much for answering my question :)

 

I can see the importance of leaning on the Lama, but ... what about people who are not buddhist? is it possible to help them after they have died - how does praying for them help? what effect does the prayer have on the spirit of the deceased?

 

and further, if the deceased wasn't buddhist, can he/she realise that there are Buddhas and Bodhisattvas helping him pass through?? or do they have the feeling that they are all alone? is anything about their perception of this sort known?

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Guest Ani.Chödrön

Tashi Delek,

 

what about people who are not buddhist? is it possible to help them after they have died?

 

There is no discrimination or forsaking of non-Buddhist. It is just more likely for a mind to be able to actualise its True Nature if it was acquainted with the teachings on it before. When everything starts to fall apart, an untrained mind tends to be frightened. And we are very often, if not usually, just the same as the non-Buddhists. So it is not a question of a “better” and “worse” religion, :notme: it is a question of how our mind is trained in the topics which are of relevance in the dying hour.

 

I would also add that any religion can offer support, if a person was a sincere believer, acting according his/her religion in everyday life and relying on holy beings. If one perceives a spiritual guide as an angel or a Bodhisattva it doesn’t make much difference. The difference lies in a different scope (aspiration) of the mind. It is good to encourage a dying person to rely on his/her faith, whatever it is, so that the mind is pacified and turned in a positive direction. :)

 

what effect does the prayer have on the spirit of the deceased?

 

I don’t know how, but I don’t see much difference between a mind in this bardo or the mind in another bardo, like a bardo of dreams or a bardo of death. I can see effects of a prayer in the actual life, so I believe that prayers are effective also after death. :D

 

Best regards,

chödrön

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tashi delek.

 

I read a book The wheel of life by the author Elisabeth Kubler Ross. it is her autobiography, where she also explains her studies of the dying people and the NDE's (near death experience). in those situations the dying people (who survived) met their dead relatives, friends and their spiritual guide, they travelled to the white light, but ... came back as they were in a way told that "their time has not come yet".

 

does buddhism say anything about this phenomenon - meeting your loved ones and yet returning to this life? :<

 

the more I think about this ... well ... I feel like the souls of the ones who are not religious (of any kind), are abandoned and left alone to deal with the passage. should it not be the same for a person, whether religious or not? I understand that accumulating merit as a loving and religious person has a positive effect on somebody. what about those, whose path did not end like this? who died very suddenly, being confused, angry, unfulfilled and were never religious? does that mean, as their minds were "blurred" and unprepared in the time of death, that they will cope with "afterlife" with bigger difficulty?? (please excuse my vocabulary, I don't know how else to explain this as merely an "afterlife" ://)

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is it possible to help them after they have died - how does praying for them help? what effect does the prayer have on the spirit of the deceased?

 

Tashi Delek,

 

In the Bardo(s) after death, the consciousness feels very insecure, because the mind is "thinking" very quick (7 or 9 x) and experiments strong uncertainty and confusion. Sometimes it takes time to understand his new state!

 

The bardo sentient being believing he is still alive tries to communicate with silbings but fails (they don't see neither hear him).Then he experiments sadness or anger, in any case feels confused and totally lost, seeking for help but not finding it, moving unceasingly from one place to another pushed by the karmic winds, seeing things or people as soon as he thinks of them, bringing more despair. He urgently looks for a shelter till he will find at last a new place of rebirth.

 

If only one person is thinking of or praying for him, he will experiment some relief of his anxiousness, and eventually can develop trust and faith and have a good rebirth.

 

Since ancient times, there are old customs to offer food to the dead people, because they can feel hungry and of course will not find any! somebody who "offers" them some food with love and prayers will calm their distress because they are able to smell it; they are called "eaters of smells".

 

If the person who helps the bardo being was close to him, trusted by him, more efficient will be this help.

But anybody can help having a good heart full of loving-kindness because the" impact" of the prayers will help to appease his frightened mind.

 

It is like to hold an hand to somebody we can imagine even not seeing him (except qualified people). We know his mind is abiding somewhere and we send to it a telepathic message of hope through the emptiness of the space, from one consciousness to another consciuosness...bip, bip...

 

Best Regards

 

Ani Chönyi :D

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Tashi delek,

 

in those situations the dying people (who survived) met their dead relatives, friends and their spiritual guide, they travelled to the white light, but ... came back as they were in a way told that "their time has not come yet".  

does buddhism say anything about this phenomenon - meeting your loved ones and yet returning to this life? :<

 

I read something recently about this topic in a book of His Holiness answering to scientist people on the subject of mind, dreams and death.d

He said that this kind of experience depends rather of the "ream state" than ofthe processus of dying.

Indeed if the deceased sentient being sees relatives, he is yet in the "bardo state" and cannot come back alive, because his mental continuum left definitely the body.

 

The more I think about this ... well ... I feel like the souls of the ones who are not religious (of any kind), are abandoned and left alone to deal with the passage. should it not be the same for a person, whether religious or not? I understand that accumulating merit as a loving and religious person has a positive effect on somebody. what about those, whose path did not end like this? who died very suddenly, being confused, angry, unfulfilled and were never religious? does that mean, as their minds were "blurred" and unprepared in the time of death, that they will cope with "afterlife" with bigger difficulty?? (please excuse my vocabulary, I don't know how else to explain this as merely an "afterlife" ://)

 

If the person during its life has developped a peaceful life (religious or not) with good deeds, she will die peacefully. Even if she is frightened, it will be bearable, because of her merits, her mind will not suffer long neither hard and will experiment happy state of mind

 

A person dying suddenly in tragic circunstances, will feel lost and confused because she had no time to realize she was dying. She

 

A sentient being having committed many or strong negative actions will experiment a lot of suffering during the bardo stages.

 

But these are general cases and everything is possible, depending of the background of karmic imprints and of their strength. For example the consciousness can feel remorse; some prayers or a bodhisattva can help ...

 

We have to train in order to get accustomed with the dying process as long we are alive, because at the moment of death it is very diffficult to change a negative and fearful mood into its opposite!

This very important passage can save us from woe and unchosen future lives...

 

Best Regards

 

Ani Cheunyi :lol:

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Indeed if the deceased sentient being sees relatives, he is yet in the "bardo state"

 

is this like a "projection" of the image of your relatives and loved ones or is it their true presence? (00)

 

and is it possible for the deceased one to communicate with beings in other bardos (so to say, their loved ones, who are still in this life) by any way - for example, through dreams or by producing smells and voices? can they move physical things? :maybe:

 

thank you very much both, Ani.Chodron and Ani.Chonyi, your answers are of a big help to me!! :hello:

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Tashi Delek.

 

We have to train in order to get accustomed with the dying process as long we are alive, because at the moment of death it is very diffficult to change a negative and fearful mood into its opposite! This very important passage can save us from woe and unchosen future lives...

 

I can understand the others, being too fixed in being alive and have worries how is to be dead. It is the same worries as one being too fixed in being dead, get accustomed to be dead, accepted the state of being dead for the "home state" and then have worries about how to be alive, when being reincarnated again.

 

Then he experiments sadness or anger, in any case feels confused and totally lost, seeking for help but not finding it, moving unceasingly from one place to another pushed by the karmic winds, seeing things or people as soon as he thinks of them, bringing more despair. He urgently looks for a shelter till he will find at last a new place of rebirth.

 

These words can also be used for describing the Life. Any of the bardos can be experienced as hostile, though.

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

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Guest Ani.Chödrön

Tashi Delek,

 

does buddhism say anything about this phenomenon - meeting your loved ones and yet returning to this life?

The process of dying – dissolution of the energetic structure that sustains our body – is irreversible. It means that when the channels start to dissolve, they cannot be re-established any more. NDE are often closely connected to special mental states, caused by drugs or mechanical wounds on brain, lack of oxygen etc. So they really resemble “dream state” more then death.

 

I have read also two Buddhist books with another approach, talking about NDE as a presentiment of death, but I believe the reason for such writing was compassion towards the suffering of death. Usually a dying or accompanying person is very much afraid of the unknown and encouragement is important at that time. There are different approaches for different capacities of people. Yet, the classical Buddhist approach is such as Ani.la has described it.

 

does that mean, as their minds were "blurred" and unprepared

I’m afraid that most of us are unprepared for death. We are unprepared even for most predictable crises. But as Ani.la said – it all depends on our everyday life.

 

is this like a "projection" of the image of your relatives and loved ones or is it their true presence?

What is the difference? Our daily lives are like dreams too. We react strongly to illusions, believing that the strenght of our emotions is a "proof" that something is real, but what really matters is the state of our mind - how we react to the experiences. l-)

 

through dreams or by producing smells and voices? can they move physical things?

Some beings are reborn as spirits and cause such things. This is not a very beneficial rebirth, their suffering is quite stronger then ours. Fortunately many events of this kind are misinterpretations of the bereaved relatives and friends.

 

When we dream about our late ones it is most often based on our memories, even if the dreams are very much alive. We tend to cling to our memories and as we tend to cling to our momentarily experiences, having difficulties to let go and live in a more soft, changing, fluent world.

 

Any of the bardos can be experienced as hostile, though.

And any can be recognized as an opportunity for the spiritual path. :D

 

All the best,

chödrön

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These words can also be used for describing the Life. Any of the bardos can be experienced as hostile, though.

 

Hello everybody,

 

Of course, as all realms of the samsara are pervaded by sufferings from all kinds.

But, in the realm of desire, ours :lol:, sufferings are more less painful and pleasures more less enjoyable than others, in a middle way... :wink:

 

For example the agony in hell realm or the satisfaction in god realms are very long and unbelievable!

 

In the bardo after death, as things occur very fast - here too the notion of time changes- the sensations are passing almost instantaneously to one another and that is very perturbating and confusing for the mind which is not prepared to experiment up and down events.

It is like to be twirled around without knowing how to put an end to get peace.

 

"If at the time of death, or later in one bardo, we can have at this moment a single sincere virtuous thought we can get a good rebirth", said a master.

 

But it is easier to have one if our mind is used to! If we want to be free from suffering, we have to train to act in a positive way during our life, because all we experiment in all bardos is consequences of passed acts, speeches and thoughts.

Positive mind and actions will lead us to good rebirths, and best of all :lol: accumulating merits will connect us with Buddha-Dharma and the possibility to get enlightened for our sake and the others.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ani Cheunyi :)

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He urgently looks for a shelter till he will find at last a new place of rebirth.

 

what is the usual period of time (if it is "measured" in this way) before a sentient being incarnates again in another life?

 

can he choose the circumstances of another life, people around him (as it is said that "we have chosen our parents") and the tasks he will undergo?

is this "freedom of choice" reserved only for spiritually highly evolved beings or is it something that everybody has to do and is able to do?

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Guest Ani.Chödrön
what is the usual period of time (if it is "measured" in this way) before a sentient being incarnates again in another life?

 

At maximum 49 days. It depends on the being's mind.

 

is this "freedom of choice" reserved only for spiritually highly evolved beings or is it something that everybody has to do and is able to do?

 

Only the spiritually highly evolved beings. The rest of us are driven by the force of karma, the force of our habits, efforts, attachments and aversions. But in a way we are creating our future life ourselves - by what we are doing in the present.

 

All the very best,

chödrön

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