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Simona

Concept of God in the Buddhism

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Tashi Delek.

 

In the Buddhism there is also operated with the concept of God. Refering the God`s realm, where Gods are dwelling it is not clear to me, if the group of Gods there is assembled by Gods, who are known to me from different world`s religions (Zeus, Ra, Alah, Brahma, Christian God, not to mention all of them now) or there is some other concept of God, which should be considered. Does whatever God exist, if there is no one to believe in it? I mean, what happened to ancient Greek Gods nowadays, as there is no one to believe in it?

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

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Tashi delek,

 

Does whatever God exist, if there is no one to believe in it? I mean, what happened to ancient Greek Gods nowadays, as there is no one to believe in it?

 

There is no God, but there are gods. There is no "one being creator of all" (it is, by the way, a completely illogical concept), but beings having accumulated specific karmas to reborn in some 'heaven-like' realms, enjoying sometime a very long life.

Sometime, their life is so long that they can beleive themselves to have existed since before human beings; and can even be mistaken has being a kind of creator! But they are not Enlighten at all. They have a very same type of mistaken mind as we do. They are inside the Samsara, in complet illusion.

 

All the God(s) mentioned by theist religions (mono or poly-theist) do fall in this category. Though, people of these religions wouldn't accept it, not understanding karma, not understanding Samsara, and -of course- wishing to believe in the "real, unique, most powerful" God! ;)

 

Actually, reading the Old Testament and most ancient Texts for nearly all mono-teist religions, the God described is very much like the Greek Gods: angry, revengful, subject to worship and flattery, etc... While, you might notice that the Christ was speaking about a different type of "Father", all-loving and forgiving...

 

Most of these gods will just spend their life in their heaven, and fall back into lower realms of existence in the samsara. Example with most Greek gods (in which existence I tend to believe, as gods of the Deva realm).

But some of them will discover that there is a spiritual Path which can liberate them for good from the cycle of conditioned rebirthes! Brahma, as example, is said to have been taking Refuge in Buddha, requesting Teachings, etc...

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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Tashi Delek, Lama Shenphen Rinpoche,

 

my thinking regarding the topic has came till the half way only, yet in the way Your explanation goes. Thank You {|:) very much to bring it further.

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

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Tashi Delek!

 

I was wondering, does anyone know the causes that will create an excessively exquisite, long life in the God's Realm? Not that I want to go there :lol: but I mean, one must have accumulated quite a lot of good Karma no? Or is it just for example that one thought about wishing to liberate all sentient beings while strongly grasping at the ego will eventually cause a rebirth in the God's realm?

 

Another question: it is said in buddhism that it is very difficult to go from lower realms (hell beings, pretas, animals) to superior realms but very easy to fall from higher realms to the lower ones. Yet, it is also said that if one hell being is able to have, for even a split second, a thought of regret or compassion, then it will instantenously be liberated from the sufferings of the hell realm! But in which realm will it then be possible for it to take rebirth? Because if it is then able to be reborn as a human being for example, then going back up the ladder might no be so complicated after all! :D

 

Thanks in advance for the answers,

All the very best!

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I was wondering, does anyone know the causes that will create an excessively exquisite, long life in the God's Realm?

One of the methods I heard about is that if one stays in a state of deep concentration for long time, just for enjoyement, not to gain further realizations, this could result in rebirth in god's realms. Maybe this happens to advanced Hindu practitioners?

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Explanation of developing Bodhicitta through the Cause and Effect Instruction includes the fourth cause: meditating on the love that comes through the force of attraction, which is preceded by 1. seeing all sentient beings as your mother 2. remembering their kindness 3. wishing to repay their kindness; and is followed by 5. the great compassion 6. altruism - universal resposibility and 7. developing bodhicitta.

Apart from some great benefits of the fourt cause - meditating on love through the force of attraction - it is said that you will be reborn as a universal emperor or as Brahma (god) the same number of times as the number of living beings you took as an object of your meditation on love (the meditation is also called "Brahmavihara" or "stages of Brahma"). But if you take as your object of meditation all the countless sentient beings - it is the cause for attainment of Buddhahood.

 

From Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand by Pabongka Rinpoche

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I am going to ask a question and than log off before karma realises, that it was I who dared asking such a question.

Isn’t believing in any God creator equivalent to believing in the Law of cause and effect? In both cases one has a fundamental truth that cannot be proven and that builds a whole set of norms that arise from it.

Gotta go…

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Isn’t believing in any God creator equivalent to believing in the Law of cause and effect? In both cases one has a fundamental truth that cannot be proven and that builds a whole set of norms that arise from it. Gotta go…

It seems to me that both can not be proved, however God theory can be disproved by logic, while karma theory can not be disproved by logic. Still because there's no proof that I know of to prove karma, one needs faith to believe in it.

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Guest Ani.Chödrön
Isn’t believing in any God creator equivalent to believing in the Law of cause and effect? In both cases one has a fundamental truth that cannot be proven and that builds a whole set of norms that arise from it.

 

Khm. :maybe: Isn't Aristotelian law of cause and effect one of the fundaments of the contemporary science? Isn’t causality present in up to date theories from general relativity to the Second Law of Thermodynamics or Systems theory? Isn’t it essential element of reasoning and inference in various sciences? :rules: :wink:

 

The law of cause and effect in the sense of karma is broader or more far-reaching, as it is oriented towards Enlightenment not towards probability or such, but the basic principle, as I understand it, has the same logic. :D

 

Best regards,

chödrön

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Isn’t believing in any God creator equivalent to believing in the Law of cause and effect?

"What we call karma, actions and their results, possess four main characteristics.

 

The first is that whatever action has been created, it will definitely bear its corresponding effect.

The second is that whatever action has been accumulated, its results will be experienced on an increased level. It means that it increases and bears wider and larger results than the action itself.

Third, the karma or the action that has not been created cannot be experienced.

Fourth, whatever action has been created, its effect will be experienced; it’s not going to be lost."

 

- Ribur Rinpoche, in Mandala.

 

Isn't this pure logic of how things work and how experiences unfold? Can you disprove it?

 

It is more difficult to accept god and preta realms and so on. But the Buddha, the Teacher, would not trick us, He has Infinite Compassion for all sentient beings and wishes only to benefit, and since He is Omniscient, I beleive that His words are completely unmistaken.

 

Also, when we think about people who are acting in a very inhuman way, we somehow intuitively feel that in a way they do not "deserve" to be human, no? And in fact, they are creating the causes to lose the next human re-birth, and might fall in the lower realms.

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Tashi Delek.

 

Isn’t believing in any God creator equivalent to believing in the Law of cause and effect? In both cases one has a fundamental truth that cannot be proven and that builds a whole set of norms that arise from it.

 

[align=justify]I would like to add my comment, if I may. I think that believing in any God creator or in the Law of cause and effect is not equivalent. It differs regarding the addition of the Wisdom (realizing Emptiness), that pervades the belief. Here is a quote from the Zen therapy, which might be for someone too extreme where is talking what the faith is:

"True wisdom is to lay down one`s life in each action. This is real faith. Faith has nothing to do with believing in Brahma or not believing in Brahma. Faith is about laying down one`s life. Everyone is willing to lay down their life for something. When we find out what we are willing to lay down our life for, then we know what our religion is. The Enlightenment of Buddha is to be converted to this way: willingness to lay down one`s life for the Truth all the time. This is actually an everyday matter. What is our life? Is it the continuation of our story about ourselves? Is it the satisfaction of our desires and plans? Is it what has happened to the bearer of our name over the years which have now disappeared? None of these is really our life."[/align]

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

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Tashi Delek,

 

There seem to be a difference between god the creator and law of cause of effect. They might be both impossible to prove, but the latter is surely much more difficult to disprove than the former. Why? Because it functions as a self-fulfilling prophecy - everything that happens, happens because of the karma, everything that doesn't happen, doesn't happen becauce of the lack of the appropriate karma :<.

 

But if something cannot be proven, it doesn't mean that it is not true. This is very clear e.g. in law, where it is many times impossible to find out what really happened in the past, but we still have to settle for some kind of interpretation, which might very well be accurate. Perhaps in science the opposite stands: only what is proven is taken for granted, but history teaches us, that even "scientific truth" can change with scientific progress. So faith as such is not something inherent only to concepts like religion, no, science also feeds on it very well - testing new ideas etc.

 

Most of religions seem to settle for faith only, while in Buddhism that doesn't seem to be the case. It is true though that instead of abstract general proofs Buddhism strives for concrete experiential proofs. So, if someone claims to see (his) future lives, you can either believe him or not. But you might agree that this kind of clairvoyance could exist only if there were some kind of logic (karma? :lol:) in the way events unfold. Wait a minute - seeing future?! :what!: Well, His Holliness the Dalai Lama did predict that the year 2005 will be the year of natural disasters... Of course, one could argue that people, who claim (of for whom others claim) to see the future are either liars or deluded, perhaps even experiencing some kind of pathological mental state. Yet with beings as His Holliness, this doesn't seem to be the case. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence in favour of the opposite (high level of ethics, high self-control etc.) !:!

 

So, if pure land exists, it is surely filled with beings, who were once into humanism, while all those sceptical scientists are still in the lab, deferring their spiritual practice and wasting their precious human rebirth :cry:. But who knows - perhaps they will accumulate enough of good karma to be reborn as sociologists, lawyers, philosophers... -8)-

 

Best regards,

 

Draftsman

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Isn’t believing in any God creator equivalent to believing in the Law of cause and effect? In both cases one has a fundamental truth that cannot be proven and that builds a whole set of norms that arise from it.

 

Tashi delek everybody,

 

It is not completely true that law of cause and effect cannot be proven... :)

If we look around us we can see a lot of examples which prove that life does'nt occur at random! There are physical, mathematical, logical rules in evey field.

 

Everything in the world proceeds from previous causes or factors: planets, elements, nature, seasons, sciences, crops, animals, life, planes, cars, boats cooking, walking, speaking, swimming, even thinking :wink: or whatever need... different conditions to be gathered to come to existence.

 

If random would exist a grain of rice would emerge from cocoa , another one from pumpkin or tomatoe- at least without DNA manipulation, which follows anyway a logical process- parsley would grow on tar, it would be night in day time......... :roll:

It would be a total and unbelievable state of confusion and panic at every moment because we would never anticipate or plan anything not knowing what's coming next! :evil:

 

Or we can imagine the effects of the weather for 5 days or more, we can plan to build everything with the right constituants. to go on the moon...

We can see that any entity lies on different aggregates or gathered parts but not like that popping from nowhere!

 

We can open our eyes (and our mind :wink: ) and check by ourselves the consequences of heat, coldness, rain, ice, noise, food, hunger, anger, drugs, illness but also good heart, generosity, patience, joy, concentration, wisdom.

 

Life is adapted to its environment: a fish cannot breath in the air, a bird cannot live in water, man need specific elements to breath; each organ has a function: we don't walk with our liver and don't think with our legs, are we? :lol:

 

There is no single result without a cause.

 

Besides reincarnation was proved by Stevenson who studied hundred of cases without any doubts possible.

Even catholic religion accepted it till 6th century...

 

Best regards

 

Ani Chönyi

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Tashi Delek.

 

[align=justify]As I understand, each of the six realms is a mental realm, actually. All the sentient beings experience the same world corresponding to their ability of more or less clear understanding, which depends on level of the contamination and obscuration with the kleshas. Corresponding to that level every sentient being also gain a form on a gross level, which is visible or invisible to the others sentient beings from the rest of the realms. I know that a physical human body it is not the only body that human being has got. There are also dream body and astral body and even more extremly subtle bodies. And with each of those bodies it is possible to experience the world differently. So, is a human realm then divided into several others sub-realms within or maybe a human being has an access to enter the other five realms?[/align]

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

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Guest Ani.Chödrön

Tashi Delek,

 

I know that a physical human body it is not the only body that human being has got. There are also dream body and astral body and even more extremly subtle bodies.

 

According to Buddhism we have just this body and dream body (when dreaming). The rest, as far as i know, has nothing to do with Buddhism. I guess people who had some less usual mental experiences gave them different names and thus separate existence, but in Buddhism we don't separate different states of mind in different bodies.

 

So, is a human realm then divided into several others sub-realms within or maybe a human being has an access to enter the other five realms?

 

We enter in contact with the realm that we have created karma for. We have usually contacts mostly with human and animal realm, but it can be also with other realms. We might experience different things that look "weird", but it is hard to find out if it is a result of a real contact with the other realms or is it a product of our delusive mind. (And it's easier to deny it then to leave it opened.)

 

All the best,

chödrön

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Tashi delek,

 

I know that a physical human body it is not the only body that human being has got. There are also dream body and astral body and even more extremly subtle bodies. And with each of those bodies it is possible to experience the world differently. So, is a human realm then divided into several others sub-realms within or maybe a human being has an access to enter the other five realms?

 

As a human being, we have only a human body. When we fall asleep, a dream body is created to host our consciousness, and will desappear when we reintegrate the physical body.

 

Within our human physcial body, we have one consciousness. We do talk about different "levels" of consciousness, but these are not different bodies. People talking about different bodies are either refering to them on a symbolic level or mistaken.

 

Therefore, humans are in contact with the human realm. Eventually, they can be also in contact with other realms, like clairvoyant people, some people with psychic power to talk with spirits or even with gods. Some advanced practitionners have even visited hells!

 

All the very best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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Tashi Delek, Lama Shenphen Rinpoche.

Tashi Delek, Ani Ch?dr?n.

 

"If formerly one has trained one’s mind with the advanced Buddhist meditations involving visualizations or the illusory, dream, or subtle bodies, one may be born with strong instincts for these practices."

 

www.berzinarchives.com...tates.html

 

Thank You {|:) very much both for Your answeres.

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

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Tashi delek,

 

And from the Berzin'archives, we can read:

What is known as the subtle body (lus phra-mo) is not a body that can leave one's gross physical form. Rather, it is the subtle energy system within one’s gross body. It is the network of invisible energy-channels

Which is clear I think :)

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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Tashi Delek.

 

[align=justify]The next shift towards the realizing the emptiness, as I guess, would be to understand that we do not live in the world of “things – closed entities”, yet we live in the world of processes. Even if we use a term “body” it is meant as a continuation of the processes on different levels of the consciousness, the processes, which make everything to change, but nothing ever lost. The energy is being set free in the processes which looks like "loss of the things". Just think of the uranium, which has so many protons and nevtrons (I think about 264 or 263 pairs, I am not sure about the number) and on the basis of falling them apart a nuclear energy is possible to set free. [/align]

 

Best regards,

 

Simona

 

NB: 236. Now, I`m sure.

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Tashi Delek,

(I think about 264 or 263 pairs, I am not sure about the number) - 236. Now, I`m sure.

 

For the sake of accuracy :wink:

Uranium 238 has 146 neutrons and 92 protons and 92 electrons. This is the most usual form of uranium.

In atomic fision, the isotop uranium 235 is most often used. It has the same number of protons/electrons and 143 neutrons.

 

All the best. :)

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