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Tsultrim

Jñana/prajña

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Tashi delek;

 

 

Regarding Jñana and prajña, these are 2 words to prescribe a state of councious or mind.

Sometimes they use prajña for wisdom and sometimes insight.

Sometimes they use Jñana for wisdom, when i am not wrong.

 

Can somebody please be so kind to explain these 2 concepts with their Tibetan equilavents ?

 

 

 

Thank you very much in advance.

 

 

Tsultrim

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Tashi Delek,

 

I can't explain about these words, so I'll just copy/paste a part of the meaning from the online dictionary (http://www.nitartha.org). For whole meaning, it's best to search for yourself in this dictionary, because it's very long description.

 

prajna (skt) = sherab (tibetan, write "shes rab" in nitartha search engine)

jnana (skt) = yeshe (tibetan, write "ye shes" in nitartha search engine)

 

sherab = shes rab - prajna, (-, absolute, sublime) wisdom, intelligence, (-, transcendent, analytical) knowledge, (-, appreciative) discrimination, discriminating awareness, appreciative understanding, knowledge * [sometimes contrasted to ye shes as intellectual knowledge vs [religious] wisdom, but sometimes = shes rab pha rol phyin and contrasted w shes yon giving a similar meaning w shes rab = wisdom]...

 

yeshe = ye shes - jnana, (exalted, primordial) wisdom, (primal, transcending, original, unitary, authentic, pure, absolute, a priori, genuine, spiritual, ever-fresh, pristine) awareness, wakefulness, pristine cognition, mystic illumination, gnosis, understanding by peak experience, (intuitive, transcending, comprehensive, true) knowledge...

 

Boris

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Hello Boris;

 

Thank you for the reply.

Your answer is also what i thought about it.

 

But my confusion stems from some interpreters from the Prajñaparamita-sutra's where they say that this sutra's are of wisdom "quality" and when i understand it well this must not be a primordial wisdom, because prime-ordial wisdom cannot (or less) be interpreted. What is interpreteble must be sherab or prajña.

 

The other things which we cannot explain with words must be more non-dualistic and must be therefore more Yeshe or Jñana.

 

But let's not forget that we use here words for some very high meanings.

 

One is not (easy) for words to explain

One is more to explain with words

 

So ain't no easy therefore my "misunderstanding".

 

Tsultrim

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yeshe = ye shes - jnana, (exalted, primordial) wisdom, (primal, transcending, original, unitary, authentic, pure, absolute, a priori, genuine, spiritual, ever-fresh, pristine) awareness, wakefulness, pristine cognition, mystic illumination, gnosis, understanding by peak experience, (intuitive, transcending, comprehensive, true) knowledge...

A beautiful name for a Lama we know !:!

 

Best regards :)

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Helo Kyenrab;

 

 

In the Gelug one is Yeshe after a long study, about 12 years? I know during my visit on the Tibetan university for higher studies in Benares, India, that there where a lot of Tibetan monks studying from:

 

Bon, Gelug, Sakya, Kagyu, Nyingma.

In the Gelug one get a degree of Yeshe. after a long study, about 12 years

In Kagyu it is Khenpo after a long study, about 12 years

In Nyingma Loppon, when i am not wrong. after a long study, about 12 years

 

So in this case i don't understand:

 

Gelug and Yeshe means primordial wisdom. Here it was because of study with the brains/intellect/ dualisms that one can get Yeshe, primordial Wisdom ?

Kagyu and Khenpo means abbot, here used for the same as Yeshe, after a long study, about 12 years

Nyingma and Loppon means translator, here used for the same as Yeshe, after a long study, about 12 years

Bon, i don't know ? after a long study, about 12 years

 

Is it then true that with only study one can attain a degree of self-realisation which is without dualism or free of it ?

 

Or is study only an aid to self-realisation of the inborn pure first mind or Dharmakaya and is the finishing touch more the "real"meditation without dualisms like:

 

words

concepts

study etc.

 

 

Tsultrim

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Tashi Delek,

In the Gelug one is Yeshe after a long study, about 12 years?

I have no idea. The only title I ever heard of that Dharma students receive after a certain amount of study is various stages of "Geshe".

 

Is it then true that with only study one can attain a degree of self-realisation which is without dualism or free of it ?

As far as I know, knowledge does not mean Dharma experience, it can be a most valuable starting point, but that's all. Our kind Lama Shenphen Rinpoche has said over and over again that to gain some realizations, one must diligently put the Teachings into practice. :)

 

Best regards,

Khyenrab

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Tashi delek,

 

In the Gelug one is Yeshe after a long study, about 12 years?

 

I think you are mistaken with "Geshe"...

 

Is it then true that with only study one can attain a degree of self-realisation which is without dualism or free of it ?

 

No. One need "experience", which comes from meditation and practices.

Studies are important to tame the mind, remove doubts, and learn how to practice correctly.

 

Mistakes come from believing you can reach Enlightenment just from studies, or just by no studies as well. There is a middle way, which is to follow exactly what your root Lama says, teaches, advises.

 

All the best, Gelong T. Shenphen

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I think you are mistaken with "Geshe"...

 

Tashi delek Gelong T.Shenpen;

 

Thank you for your kind reply.

 

Here one can see which difference only one letter can cause for illusion(s).

 

Indeed Geshe is the academic title for a very well learned Monk/Gelong. Thank you for the correction, i make allways this one letter mistake, very stupid from me ! No excuse.

 

When i am not wrong then this person becomes afterwards a Lama in Gelug ?

 

Further i fully agree to the further view regarding study:

 

At first removing basic stupidity/ignorance by thorough study

Then gaining insight by this study

Further filtering this insight by meditation

Then wisdom is gained and by other helpfull correct personal (Yogic)-technics/ methods

With this realised wisdom one is able to abide in a correct post-meditative view, the view

 

So study, thinking, meditating, dualism stops and one can obtain that which is without dualism and without learning and without study, the allways abiding pure illuminating one.

 

Primeordial Wisdom is that which is inherrent "in" as well the Buddha(s) as well the Bodhisattva(s) as well in all other sentient beings, in the latter dormant/unrealised

Compassion is the way of the Buddha(s) as well the Bodhisattva's to help the dormant/unrealised.

 

Herefore the unrealised need at first study etc.

 

Tsultrim.

 

P.s.: Dear Lama Shenpen,

 

I don't want to be impolite about your status, but for the clear view, what is your status

 

Gelong / Lama and Rinpoche ? How should i adress you, with what title ?

Are You a Tibetan Lama or a western ?

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Dear Tsultrim,

 

Gelong / Lama and Rinpoche ? How should i adress you, with what title ?

Are You a Tibetan Lama or a western ?

 

Do read this: Lama Shenphen Rinpoche and TibetanLama.com

 

And: please be careful when you post. I do have to edit each of your post to keep our forum "clear".

Do not jump many lines, and do not quote the whole text you answer to; just what is important for your answer.

 

Thank you :)

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