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Simona

Where is death

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How do the omnipresent factors function when a person is in a state of unconsciousness? I had been twice in such state (during the surgical operation) and I can tell you that I didn`t perceive then anything at all. It was not like in the state of dreaming, where a lot of things usually are happening and different feelings are experienced. I hardly even say that it was "nothing", cause it wasn`t even "nothing"!

 

Tashi Delek everybody :) ,

 

This kind od mental state looks more like the opposite of awareness, a kind or "blackout", uncounscious state as we experiment before falling to sleep or at the end of the death process. There is no light into it, its heavy, sticky...It is the nature of the ignorance.

 

Even if we are not aware of them, the mental factors are always here, int this case, in a "latent" way, like seeds which will "pop up" when the right conditions will be there. They are sleeping in a way :P but they didn't disappear.

 

Ani Chönyi

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Tashi Delek.

 

Thank you for the answer, Ani Chonyi! Since the mind (together with the five omnipresent factors (FOF) as its inseparable parts) begins to resemble the states that accompany it, indeed seems that FOF function as they would not. The mind changes, if the states of the mind changes as well. But, there is also some other way that mind changes and it is linked to the impermanent nature of the mind, which is connected to the law of karma. When one find oneself in the state of the unconsciousness, what is left is only to rely upon the second way of changes, cause one is not able to consciously change the state of the mind. It is as the Westerns say, waiting the destiny to reveal. If the right causes were created, the one will wake up from the unconsciousness. So, I just can not believe that people, which are unconscious, do notices a great deal what is said to them and that when they wake up, can remember those words, which were said to them. It is against the logic.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Guest Ani.Chödrön

Tashi Delek

 

The mind changes, if the states of the mind changes as well.

 

What else is mind, if not a continuous stream of changes, without beginning and without an end? (But not without awareness, in fact not without the five omnipresent mind factors.)

 

But, there is also some other way that mind changes and it is linked to the impermanent nature of the mind, which is connected to the law of karma.

 

Mind is changing because its nature is emptiness. It is transforming within and beyond samsara. Like waves on the surface of a great ocean.

 

in the state of the unconsciousness (…) one is not able to consciously change the state of the mind. (…) So, I just can not believe that people, which are unconscious, do notices a great deal what is said to them and that when they wake up, can remember those words, which were said to them. It is against the logic.

 

Most of our daily life we are not consciously changing the states of our mind, unless we put effort to act consciously, :// to be really fully aware of our actions / motivations / situations in which we are. l-) Yet, we are able to act and hear, due to our manifold habits (of body, speech and mind) and a drop of free will. :lol:

 

I would guess that there is not just one type of unconscious state. Some people report about blank state others about different kinds of perceptions. If we do not perceive something, it does not mean that this does not exist. Maybe we can enter a more subtle perception through different door or we need more time to prepare our mind for it.

 

I think it’s the same with the omnipresent factors. What we are able to understand about them now is just a surface. Deepening of wisdom reveals much more. Usually we are so occupied with our conceptual little world, that we simply do not notice or do not recognize more subtle states of our mind. With increasing skill in meditation we can reach them. I imagine it like thick fog starting to vanish, very slowly but surely, revealing a whole new world. 8O

 

All the best,

chödrön

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Tashi Delek, ven. Ani Chödrön.

 

What else is mind, if not a continuous stream of changes, without beginning and without an end? (But not without awareness, in fact not without the five omnipresent mind factors.)

 

Here I would like to add an interesting quote from the book "Medicine for the mind" of Geshe Tashi Tsering: "Mind and mental events perform different functions. Mind sees the object while these events or states of mind see its particular features. Mind may focus on a particular object but does not engage its individual aspects; those are engaged by individual states of mind. In other words, mind simply observes; individual states of mind analyse and ascertain. The mind and the mental events that occur within it are a single entity. The five omnipresent states are essentially identical with mind, distinguished from mind only by conceptual analysis.

To speak of mind is to speak about the basic awareness of an object, without isolating any specific difference or function.

To speak of states of mind is to speak about individual functions of our basic awareness."

If I understood correctly, the mind itself is netural by its relative nature (it is luminous, clear and knowing), yet states of the mind are positive or negative and mental states are nevertheless those, which give direction to the mind towards positive or negative.

 

Mind is changing because its nature is emptiness. It is transforming within and beyond samsara. Like waves on the surface of a great ocean.

 

To add from the same source as above: "The momentary changes linked to the impermanent nature of the mind are not the same as the conscious changes that rely on positive mental events. In particular, these conscious changes rely upon discrimination. Sometimes our discrimination is accurate, but other times it might err. It is perhaps the busiest, and in some way most problematic, mental event we have."

 

Best regards,

Simona

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