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frederic

Paying for Dharma?

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Angelique, by joining the effort I meant that anybody could help out when there are things to be done regarding the organisation of events here in Slovenia.

 

Namgyal, I won't spam the topic either. Just a short explanation. This is not the first time that allegations of exclusiveness/inclusiveness emerged and every time I've analysed my own behaviour and the behaviour of others very carefully, but I haven't found any major indication that there would be a group behaving as an elite. So, in short, I'm fed up about it. There are problems I can help, but I feel this is not one of them, because reasons for it may be somwhere else.... If you've seen me behaving improperly, please let me know by private message, so I can improve.

 

Have a nice evening.

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Angelique, by joining the effort I meant that anybody could help out when there are things to be done regarding the organisation of events here in Slovenia.

 

If you've seen me behaving improperly, please let me know by private message, so I can improve.

 

Have a nice evening.

 

No, no, I did not mean that. I appologize if I sounded as if I did.

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Hello,

 

I am quite surprised of this thread, at first I was a bit annoyed, but then it made me laugh trying to imagine all the different strategies that Dharmaling staff and Sangha would use to try to preserve each individual feelings :D

 

Can you imagine some staff, going to the hear of each people who are making a regular donation, and telling "in order to preserve the feelings of the people who are not donating regularly you will get a ticket, but don't give money as you are allready giving more than 900 sit twice a month, but we don't want people to feel you are the elite because of this". Then they will have to imagine a strategy so that people who would see them whispering at the hears of some people wouldn't feel offended, ad so and so ....

 

I guess it is better that everybody tries to find why is ego is hurt more than blaming a very nice system. If I have no money all is free for me at Dharmaling events (to precise, the only group I know where all is really free for the one who cannot pay) :roll:

 

But at the same time in all our actions of everyday life we have to pay something. Most of the time double time, or for things we are not even concerned with. In that case we find it so normal that it doesn't even cross our mind.

 

Here we are with a system where entrance is free, only donation suggested. I don't see any problem to be reminded that it is good to give something and why, and even indicated how much would be nice. Most of the time I never know how much to give :wink:

I also understand that some people are giving regularly, it is very responsible from them, some kind of moral engagement and maturity toward the Dharma practice (I precise that I am not). And at the entrance the man who is giving the tickets seems too busy to check at the same times tickets, plus tickets given to people who allready payed maybe 20 times the suggested donation, plus people having feelings, etc... So a member card seems quite simple and logical to me.

 

Then about the elite system, maybe some people are more used to each other, but this is in every group. Yet in Dharmaling you get the direct number or e-mail contact. I tried today and was in contact with Ven. Lodreu just by writing him. I can phone him, get appointment with Rinpoche like everyone else.

I asked Ven. Lodreu about being a part of the elite group who is taking some times to prepare the room for teachings, and it was no problem at all. Only he told me:

" ... it is necessary to know it before, in order to smoothen the process. If too many people come who don't know what to do, it can become really messy, and take more time and energy. We also have to respect the place, and create a good energy before the teachings".

 

In final I think, as some have said, we all have been a bit spoiled, getting all for no effort. Now we should think about it with a more wide view.

Only my humble opinion.

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Namgyal, no hurt feelings what so aware...

 

But I did mean that sincerely - sometimes we don't know we act in a certain way and if we see ourselves, we are just as unpleasantly surprised as others...

 

See you at the next teaching!

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nenuflar, you gave a very good rationale of the situation...

 

just one more thing - there is no elite group, just a working team!

 

See you at the next teaching too!

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Tashi Delek

 

maybe I'm really late but I think all opinions count :) . The first time I saw what happened at the teaching I was shocked 8O . Couldn't believe it, I got the impression that this is terrible. How can I pay, how will other even younger than me pay (I'm first year student) - it's so hard to bring young people to the sacred teachings and now with that terrification on the door - who would enter.

 

But than I looked in a different way - how much has Dharma given to me and eventhough I gave back a bit - did I try my best? When we pay the teaching we do not pay Lama for the teaching (so I understood) but we pay for the place and things that we can be there. I think this was a great way to deal with my ego and all the things involved in it. Also we must look at this differently - how we will be able to acquire Temple and ceter if there is no money? Last year I was at the meeting and as said in previous posts - there is not enough money - simply just to sustain the instition of Dharma. How can we acquire Dharma if there is noone to help us.

 

However I do see a problem that younger people might not come to a teaching next time if they would feel "attacked".

 

And for cards for regular owners - don't think they are anything wrong, they work nicely. But If I would pay regularly I wouldn't like the card -> it would boost my ego...

 

best regards

 

namgyel

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And for cards for regular owners - don't think they are anything wrong, they work nicely. But If I would pay regularly I wouldn't like the card -> it would boost my ego...

 

We all have so much work to do, card or no card....

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Tashi Delek, urki.

 

how we will be able to acquire Temple and ceter if there is no money? Last year I was at the meeting and as said in previous posts - there is not enough money - simply just to sustain the instition of Dharma. How can we acquire Dharma if there is noone to help us. However I do see a problem that younger people might not come to a teaching next time if they would feel "attacked".

 

How we will be able to acquire a temple if the people would feel being attacked and terrified by just a simple suggestion of the donation? Don`t you think that even if there would be enough money for the temple, there would be a lot of work to do, which would demand investments of all kind (again money, time, hard work, drives here-there to bring the material or people who would work, providing food and drink for workers, logistic communication and organization, the usage of mobile phones which costs again, documents, running around the offices, paying taxes, renounciations...). If Dharmaling would ask who is ready to help with the shovels, how would we feel? Would we ask ourselves Why me? I`m too young, I`m a woman, I have no time, I`ve got a...bla, bla, bla? Beside that, asking if there is noone to help us is useless. Everyone should ask ourselves what we can do about it and stop always look around for the others. They will join or they will not. So, what you could do about the situation, which you are quite aware of, is maybe to get some extra job by the student`s service to help yourself and the community in a better way. Just a thought.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek,

However I do see a problem that younger people might not come to a teaching next time if they would feel "attacked".

Good point Urki ;-F! I guess it really looks strange - everything is free, but still there are reminders about the recommended donations ;-}. Until we all get more aware and disciplined with regular donating, this is needed. Yet, I am sure that members of the Dharmaling staff will put a nice smile on their face :lol:, when meeting (young) people, not to scare them away :((.

 

When we pay the teaching we do not pay Lama for the teaching (so I understood) but we pay for the place and things that we can be there.

I believe it also goes for the material needs of the Sangha, which is the minimum we have to provide in order to have regular teachings.

 

Also we must look at this differently - how we will be able to acquire Temple and ceter if there is no money?

Once we acquire the merits, money will just pour in -8)-. This can also be done with recitation and dedication of the Sanghata sutra. www.sanghatasutra.net and www.kunkyab.org (Kyabje Zopa Rinpoche reciting !:!). And of course we shouldn't forget to put Lama Shenphen Rinpoche's teachings into practice o:).

 

And for cards for regular owners - don't think they are anything wrong, they work nicely. But If I would pay regularly I wouldn't like the card -> it would boost my ego...

But with the card one is also given a great opportunity to practice modesty. Since it is more difficult to stay modest with the card than without, this surely makes a very good practice {..}.

 

Best regards,

 

Draftsman

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Tashi Delek.

 

And of course we shouldn't forget to put Lama Shenphen Rinpoche's teachings into practice o:).

 

;-F

 

"As Dharma practitioners we pray, and although it is a good thing to do, in itself it is not enough. In the worst cases a person places all of their hopes in prayer without doing anything to support those prayers. This is very unfortunate and not very beneficial. Suppose I like apples and want some in my garden. It would be silly to pray every day for apples to grow in my garden if I don`t have an apple tree and haven`t even planted a seed for one! How can you have apples with no tree, or a tree with no seed? Just so, it is impossible to experience the effect of things we have no cause for. So prayers are good, but they need to be supplemented by actions and causes. We need to transform our minds, for that is the support prayers require to be helpful and effective." Geshe Tashi Tsering

 

 

Best regards,

Simona

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I guess it really looks strange - everything is free, but still there are reminders about the recommended donations ;-}. Until we all get more aware and disciplined with regular donating, this is needed.

 

 

Tashi Delek to all,

 

a very good point, Draftsman. Precisely that was one of the things I wanted to say.

 

But, from here on we can only pray and make such causes that everybody (for himself, herself) would be always able to donate... I think that it is important to stress three points:

- the great opportunity to have teachings "at home" (instead having to go abroad - or not having teachings)

- the material needs of the Sanga (a matter of survival)

- the great good that comes from donations (different merits, better practice)

- purity of donation: it is said that one woman beggar, seeing the Buddha, wanted to make a donation, but had only sand - so she donated a handful of sand with great devotion. Upon which Buddha predicted that, in future life, she would become very rich and Buddha herself (on this point I'm not sure wheter I'm inventing the story or not).

 

By this, donation itself becomes a sublime practise of generosity; the purer the practise, the greater its good! For this cfr. Lam-rim in 3 vol. (vol. 1, I guess) with Je Tsonkhapa illustrated at the cover - you find it in Ani.la Chodron library!

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And yes, I forgot many things, but here would like to stress just one more:

the essential question for all those that have (personal, created by the cultural background of post-capitalism and anti-clericalism) problems with donation is: BUT WHAT CAN I DO IF I WANT TO ATTEND THE TEACHINGS?

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Tashi Delek, Kunzang.

 

BUT WHAT CAN I DO IF I WANT TO ATTEND THE TEACHINGS?

 

Simply go for it!

 

Best regards,

Simona

 

P. S.: I`ll be happy to see you there. :wink:

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It's quite 'funny' actually to see everyone to pour his own emotions and feeling over this matter. Because it has always been clear that teachings are "entrance free" when organised by Dharmaling. An e-mail has been sent on the news list of the Congregation, on the 9th of February (in ENglish & Slovene); did you forgot about it? I add it below.


*** TEACHING DONATIONS ***

Dharmaling wish that access to teaching is free. Dharma is not, and shall never be, for sale.

 

Nevertheless, we have to cover various costs, such as the cushions provided during the teachings (also to wash them regularly), the announcements in various media, the prayer texts we recite before and after the teachings (regularly taken away, so we have to reprint several times), the web site where you can find the program and some translations of teachings/practices. But also, we need to support our resident Lama, and the Sangha, who are helping us on a daily basis with advice, regular teachings and activities, with usually around 70 persons at teachings.

 

We wish to keep the entrance free of charge. Yet, we would like people to feel responsible over all the costs, in order to help us to provide you with quality program, texts, events.

 

Consequently, we have established a ticket system at the entrance. This ticket is for donation. We do suggest a donation of about the cost of a cinema ticket (though, Dharma is without comparison with any financial retribution): 900 sit.

* This ticket is not for sale *

 

Note: the donation you are making for items at the shop is not going in the same envelope. The shop money is helping to provide more items for the shop, photocopying of prayer texts, and to buy items for the Gompa/Temple. Whereas the donation box contents go to support the organization of the teachings and events, renting the house for the resident Lama, etc...

 

Members of Dharmaling Congregation who do a donation monthly, or regularly, will get a card. They will take a ticket at the entrance, but won't be expected to give a donation into the box.

 

 

*** REGULAR DONATION ***

Some of you (currently 20 persons) are making a monthly or regular donations. This money is either given into the hands of the responsible person (Jon), or wired from bank to bank.

For more information, you can contact Jon before each teaching in Ljubljana or by e-mail to him: donation @ dharmaling.si

Congratulations for one of them, who gave last year a bit more than 500.000 SIT! This is a great support.

 

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Tashi Delek!

 

I believe all is clear now - before, a donation was recommended, but there was no specific amount named. Now, a recommended amount is written. There is no other change. :wink:

 

But, if you allow me a little question - if we attend a teaching, we recite the Mandala offering before the beginning, and this implicates offering the whole universe, or all universes, to receive the precious teaching.

 

And here we discuss whether it is correct to suggest that one should contribute - voluntarily - the price of a cinema ticket to attend the teaching ... :?:

 

Or did I get it all wrong? 8O

 

Best wishes.

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Tashi Delek, Wangmo.

 

And here we discuss whether it is correct to suggest that one should contribute - voluntarily - the price of a cinema ticket to attend the teaching ... :?:

Or did I get it all wrong? 8O

 

It might be that for the western`s minds it is much easier to offer objects of the inner than the outer world. This is because the outer objects are overvalued and therefore strong attachments. We were raised up that mainly outer objects count in this life and greatly neglect the value of the inner objects and the value of the inner world. I remember that in the school we were taught very precisely about the building of the physical body, about the bones, muscles,...and those who attended lessons of psychology or art have got some taste of the inner world. Even on the high medicine school there was a view that inner world is something not quite useless but rather like some appendix, which no one didn`t know exactly what to do with it. There were teachings about how one should feel, think, dream in the relation to the outer world in order to be perceived as “normal”. About the relation to the inner world, everything that withdraw from a “normal” model, was labeled as unnormal and though even more unwanted.

 

Can we establish that the preciousness of the objects is measured by the power of the attachment?

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi Delek!

 

We do recite this inner mandala offering sometimes, don't we?

"The objects which increase my greed, hatred and confusion,

friend, enemy, stranger, body and posessions

I offer without hesitation. Graciously accept them and

bless me to be free from arising of the three poisons."

 

All the best. :)

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Tashi Delek.

 

I wish to all that the inner mandala offering would become realized and help to find a peace and harmony between inner and outer world in each of us. And bring understanding that it is an honour to help Ven. Lama Shenphen Rinpoche and Sangha. They won`t be more richer as nobody won`t be more poorer. Only what they could do with this money is to get better place for us to attend teachings and equipments. I am aware I will never be able to give them us much us they give me with the teachings, healings of illnesses, advices when being in hard life trials and all their compassionate and warm readiness to help day and night. Here I would like to thank Ven. Lama Shenphen Rinpoche, Ven. Lodreu.la, Ven. Ani.la Chönyi and Ven. Ani.la Chödrön for all their concern they are giving unselfishly without thinking about their own comfort and wealth. As long us we will be helping each other there is a hope and the power to create a better place not only for us, but for all sentient beings. Cause this treasure we will carry on and hand it over when it will be needed.

 

Thank you. {|:)

Simona

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Simona, you could not express it more nicely....

 

Thank you, Ven. Lama Shenphen Rinpoche and the Sangha, for all you do and for being here with us. !:!

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