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kunzang

12 interdependent links and lo.rig

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Dear all,

I would like to discuss about connections between the teaching on "12 interdependent links (12 IL)" and "Lo.rig". I'm interested in the 2nd, "realistic" (I believe that's the term) analysis of the 12 IL, that is:

- the 2nd part of the "consciousness" (named effect, that is, the maturation of the seeds)

- name with 4 agregates (? is this the term): feeling, discernemenet, will, consciousness; body (5th aggregate)

- contact

- feeling (of the "I"; "I" exists)

- attachment

- grasping

- existence

 

In Lo.rig, we have, among others, also the "always present mind factors":

- feeling

- discernement

- intention

- connection

- attention

 

So, there are some similarities, connections, common problem fields in both teachings. I won't be very systematic and will start with connection. In 12IL, it connects the "object", the "5 sources/types of consciousness" (seeing, hearing, smell, taste, touch) and the body (eye, ear, nose, tongue, skin). Because of this connection one gets persuaded that what the 6 sources portray or make him/her enter in contact with, is "real" (e.i. conventionally real; existing on its own, while we know, it is only us that created it). Here, the connection leads to the production of feeling (pleasant, unpleasant, neutral) that persuades us into the "reality" of what is being felt. In this manner, the "feeling" makes possible the production of ignorance and, at the same time, it drives us into the ever thickening obscurations.

 

But, are there any differences in the explanation of "contact" (man and woman, lying together) in 12 IL and "connection" in Lo.rig? Why then 2 different terms? To what point are they synonymous?

 

Thank you very much for helping me understand!

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I have to apologize; in the penultimate paragraph of my post I used the term "connection" for 12 IL, while it is clear that here we talk about "contact". Still, the question about synonymity remains.

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Tashi Delek, Kunzang

"realistic" (I believe that's the term) analysis of the 12 IL
I remember that first analysis is called logic succession and the second is an actual succession in which these 12 interdependant links are experienced.

 

- the 2nd part of the "consciousness" (named effect, that is, the maturation of the seeds)

- name with 4 agregates (? is this the term): feeling, discernemenet, will, consciousness; body (5th aggregate)

- contact

- feeling (of the "I"; "I" exists)

- attachment

- grasping

- existence

I think it was explained that the second explanation is far more complicated because some of these 12 interdependant links function as causes and the others as results. Not all the causes that one is creating now give results now. And there are several types of karma, some are composed into one`s life, the others are projections, some are the base for the next life, some are accompaniment. Ignorance, action (or volition) formations and the first part of the consciousness are located in previous life. The second part of the consciousness (which is called the consciousness of the effect), name & form, contact, attachment, grasping and six consciousnesses are located in present life. Becoming, birth and agening & death give results in the next life.

 

So, there are some similarities, connections, common problem fields in both teachings.
Yes, I would say so. 12 interdependant links is about the way how karma works. And Lo.rig is about how mind works. In general karma and mind are conected as karma is an imprint, created by the ignorant mind. The common point in which both meet is ignorance.

 

But, are there any differences in the explanation of "contact" (man and woman, lying together) in 12 IL and "connection" in Lo.rig? Why then 2 different terms? To what point are they synonymous?
I think that first one is a karmic action and the second one is a mental action.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Tashi delek,

 

But, are there any differences in the explanation of "contact" (man and woman, lying together) in 12 IL and "connection" in Lo.rig? Why then 2 different terms? To what point are they synonymous?
Actually, in Tibetan the word for 6th of 12 IL (contact) and word for 4th omnipresent mental factor in Lo.rig (connection) is the same: reg pa (skt: sparsha). The explanation is also the same.

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