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The Syndrome Of Chronic Tiredness Would Have A Family Dimension

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I found this article quite interesting :)

 

"The syndrome of chronic tiredness would have a family dimension resulting from a certain phenomenon of imitation between the parents and the children. it is what data obtained at 80 teenagers suggest of which the half complained about chronic tiredness. The relative risk of tiredness in the young person is three to five times more important in the event of stress or of tiredness in the mother. It is enough that the mother goes away one hour of more than house so that the clinical demonstrations of this syndrome of chronic tiredness decrease by 60% at the teenager! Curiously, the father does not seem to play any part in the expression of the psychological disorders. "

Sources: Pediatics - June 2006

 

Bye, Alan

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I found this article quite interesting :)

:applause: Finally a document from scinetists to advocate woman's right to free time. Not leaving children alone with the father sounds almost as child abuse. I think fathers should seriously consider the study for the benefit of their own children and encourage the mothers to engage in more activities of their interest away from home and children. They should be more willing to undertake more stress, becasue even if they are completely stressed out already, children don't suffer from it, so no problem :))

 

Do they say how many hours per day should we stay away from home to annull the remaining 40% of stress?

 

(I am not very serious and I am not a mother, but it sounds very interesting indeed :laugh: ; I would love to hear some 'father' reactions :angel: )

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This article doesn't sound to me as advocating the right of women for free time, but the negative impact they can have when they are on the back of their children, specially teenagers. Curious how the perception is different from a man or woman perspective, hum? ;)

 

I would love to hear some 'father' reactions :angel: )

Well, I would say that if most mothers would aknowledge that fathers can also take good care of the children, surely they would be may be more active! But day after day, women are criticising mens/fathers and give them the feeling they can't take care correctly of the children.

 

Secondly, the way so many mothers do educate their boys is close to "psychological castration", and doesn't really give to boys the wish or the feeling they will be able to can take care of the children later.

Though such study might show also that men undertake better the stress, and do not spread it at home to their children :)) May be because they had already to deal with the stress of their mother when they were a child :D

 

Women are angry at "macho" men, but they are making them as such thelmselves. How many times did I hear mothers saying to little boys: "you should not cry, you are a man"! Do they consider the possible impact of their words? Of course, not. It's easier to be angry and play the role of poor little victim than to share the role they have the feeling is "theirs"!

 

Of course, things are changing, slowly, and young parents are sharing more the task of upbringing and educating the children. Which is very nice, an dgive more chance for psychological stability of the children, adults of tomorrow's World.

 

Bye, Alan

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Hello,

 

the article here I find interesting, and unfortunately quite true to appear in reality, as I may have a possibility to observe.

The role of a parent is not an easy one, far from that; in fact I see it as most difficult and challenging there can be. As we are taught, we can easily look away from the problems of others, but that can not be that easy with "our" children. For some, when it gets too much, that might also become the case.

This discussion should not turn into a discourse about equality between two genders for there were some already in this forum, not leading far, at least for my perception. Anyhow, I believe a father and a mother have the same possibilities in upbringing children, for back there in the memory we keep the experiences of both roles already. There might be some cultural framework that we are born into, but if we don't choose to follow it where it becomes too tight for us, we don't have to. It's all about making decisions as human beings, not females or males. We can learn and develop what we put ourselves into. And if it takes some time, it's about karma. So there are irresponsible mothers and confused fathers, and again possessive-like fathers and cold-to-seem mothers. We have seen them all, right?

But the difficulty in so intense relationships is that we lack awareness of where "I" end and "you/another" (a child in this case) begin, conventionally speaking. This might indeed be even more difficult for mothers, since they have this psychological bondage with their children, for they have come out of their bodies. And for some time, they have been energetically so close. With time, as much as the child is prepared to take more freedom, being more and more confident, they should be able to loosening up this bondage. Some seem to be never ready for this.

I see having children can sometimes be a kind of a social status. Or fulfilling a deep yearning from within, which seems romantic-like, blind for reality. Selfish goal to achieve at any price. It sounds rude this last sentence. But it looks quite sad when it happens.

I also see sometimes parents identifying with them being a parent, putting all their feeling of worth in these relationships with their children. This is choking them. Eventually they of course feel like running as far as they can to take a breath.

Even though parents feel like they are giving the best of themselves when being very!- (to be read over-) protective with their children, they are harming them.

Have you gotten the opportunity to see a child whose parents had believed in him/her and one whose parents have not? Just this very fact - believing or not believing in one, can co-create such a different personality. And it's just a belief, something so hidden.

It's again about freedom, to be given to children to experience what they need to experience. Or can experience at certain moments of their growth and development.

But it's not easy to see all these.

On the other hand, when seen, it's also not easy to turn around saying “who caresâ€. In fact, I think it's impossible. So therefore I too think, Alan, that things do slowly change concerning awareness of parents or parents-to be in what a parenthood is, which makes me stay positive about it.

Best regards,

Pamo

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Guest Petra S

Hi Alan,

 

although you are surely right with your article and the rest, this topic has another point of view. I know quite some women who miss "real men". They complain that contemporary men are too feminine, boyish, self centered, moody... They love their comfort more than the challenges of the opened world... And they never grow up and take the responsibilities. These women are whining that they are tired of being more mothers then partners to men, and that they would prefer an old-fashioned heros who would take care of them.

I wonder if they would really be willing to give up their freedom or they are just daydreaming...

 

My point is not that women are never satisfied, neither with macho nor with boyish men. :laugh: I know that the whole thing points to the changes that feminism brought - and its responsibility for the results. But still, an enormous amount of women complain that men don't want to grow up and that the whole burden of responsibilities remains on them. :// Would a more regular coffee break of women really change something essential?

 

Bye,

Petra

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Hello Petra

I'm not so sure if we can chose this so very freely... Even just recognizing the expectations doesn't seem so simple for me. From this reason I think it's good to read and talk about these things. And because defining roles means defining responsibilities - it makes things easier, doesn't it?

We can choose to choose freely, opposed to been set for.

I agree that defining responsibilities makes things easier.

I also agree that reading and talking about all these is good, as long as it is about finding your own place within the whole subject, not trying to see any of the parties as good or bad.

But if was born somewhere where women are badly treated for their gender and if I saw it as not right, I think I would try to find the way to come to live to the part of the world where there is more equality. But, would I see it as not right?

 

But when parents argue about education it becomes a gender issue, no?

I am not so sure about that. I more observed so far arguments between parents as reinforcing their own: belief, power, ...

Bye bye

Pamo

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Tashi Delek!

 

Well, I would say that if most mothers would aknowledge that fathers can also take good care of the children, surely they would be may be more active! But day after day, women are criticising mens/fathers and give them the feeling they can't take care correctly of the children.
Excuse me, then it seems it would be enough to encourage the men to take care of the children, or even less - just to stop criticising them, and they would take care of them, automatically? 8/ I'd love it to be that easy. :))

 

But I dare to say that many men have a very simple and plain reason why they don't take care of the children: laziness. :0022: (With due apologies to all bright exceptions. :bow: )

 

But let us not make this a gender issue: I think many women also accept this game out of laziness. :0022: Because it may be easier to care for the children, and then complain and feel "tormented" (and develop chronic fatigue syndrome), than to make any radical changes.

Plus, it is a welcome excuse for just anything in the world - "I can't meet friends /do sports / take long walks / meditate / go bungee jumping / engage in Dharma / whatever else/ because I have to take care of the children".

 

All the best.

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I know quite some women who miss "real men". They complain that contemporary men are too feminine

This is part of my point: who makes the men?

Do you see many men in kinder-garden? Not that some men wouldn't like, but they are discredited by women!! How many times we can hear gossip from women against men taking care of small children, that they must be gay or pedophile! ://

The society does not recognise their role in children education. Children are raised by women who try to shape the children without consistency in their pedagogical views ie. they would like the children to be sensitive and affectionous, and at same time they say to boy they shouldn't cry and such. The little boys get confused. They would like to identify themselves to their gender, but there is no men around them, since women consider it is their role to raise children. Vicious circle.

 

Add to this the effect of the pesticides which disturb the hormonal system, more specifically of the boys (because pesticid are often "oestrogen-like", and disturb heavily the maturation of the brain at the moment it differenciate between boys and girls). And you have "feminin, boyish" men, without hair on their chin or chest, without strong inner will and power of action.

 

Bye, Alan

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Guest Petra S
The society does not recognise their role in children education.
Where do you see a man's role? Are you saying that feminisation of men, besides the pesticides, is the consequence of absence of men in education? What are the consequences for women then? 8/

 

without strong inner will and power of action
This sounds like men have a dominancy over it. Or that you are saying that women's mind is a weeker mind. :// Is this what you meant?

 

Bye,

Petra

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Dear Petra,

 

Why a child would psychologically need both parents? One of the reasons I see is that a child, in his development - cognitive, emotional, social and moral, goes through different sensitive periods. One field of his development depends on another, for they interact. At certain age, a child reaches time when he is faced within with certain conflicts - to better understand the phenomena, world around him, himself, relations between objects, cause and effect. He is experiencing and therefore developing.

Emotionally and sociably, at certain periods he or she might get too attached to one parent; of the same gender or the opposite one. In his first, second year with his mother. The other parent plays a big role in helping a child resolve these conflicts a child finds himself in; in his early age, helping him to see interesting things around him, to motivate him to make steps further from his mother, later when a child is three, four five, to help him deal with his ambivalent feelings that he is faced with around his parents, and accept reality, which helps him develop healthy. Later to a child his friends become very important. He is faced with rules and social dynamics intensively. Both parents, setting the limits with their own gender quality style, though with the same message and firmness, also by just being who they are, give to child richness in mirroring who he also is. Even later, trying to establish his full identity, a child searches for identification with his parent of the same gender.

In his teenage years, even when he can completely and openly identify with his parent of the same gender, from the point of view to accept himself or herself as man or a woman, a child meets other adults, which can also play a big role in his search.

I believe even earlier in his development, other adults can play a figure of mother or father for a child.

As the matter of fact, I think it is very good for a child to be surrounded with more adults - parents' friends, teachers, relatives, neighbors.... so he can see many examples and choose what he within finds to suit him most. But that takes time.

Best regards,

Pamo

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Dear All,

 

I must admit I don't really understand well all the psychology and phylosopy and all the theory...I am more simple minded - must be my mum's fault! :angel: ...but in the end...in every day life...it seems there is lousy mothers, lousy fathers, lousy kids, and equally excellent ones and those brilliantly lousy depending on the mood of the day or period of the year or the situation on the stock market ...it's Samsara...good news for me (and equally bad, as good things don't last either) is that everything changes, it is all transient...

 

I was personally brought up by my mum till age of 15; father I would mostly see on Sundays when he had time to scream, give lectures :vieuxsmiley: and occasional slaps - militaristic type; then mum died out of the blue and I was left with a father to whom I did not talk and a 5 year-old brother to take care of. For the next couple of years, I was growing up with my father's à¢-Ëœfinancial support' and my brother was growing up with a teenage hormone-driven sister. Maybe lack of one parent and for a while lack of both of them left some visible traces on my personality :yes: , but my brother - he grew up to be a truly amazing 18 year-old; it seems being a mother and a father to himself for a while he did a great job and is one of the most responsible people I know; and believe it or not, though being a boy, he's worked with children in summer camps already, they even let him work with children with special needs and he spends a lot of time with our little sister, playing an important part in her bringing up (mind you some of his à¢-Ëœcool' male friends make fun of him, while contrary to the à¢-Ëœthesis' laid down in this thread, girlfriends adore him for it :yes: ); some years after my mum died, my father also started changing slowly to become a wonderful father, who is now an excellent, full-time father (which now that he retired has the time to be), playing even half of a mother's role as well to my 4 year-old stepsister - he enjoys every minute of it and I guarantee you no woman nor man criticizing him, calling him gay or paedophile or whatever could ever discourage him to give up on his role.

 

Now, my dear Alan, you could equally be Alana :D as far as I am concerned, I would not leave my little sister with you - not because you are a man but simply because the actions of your speech and mind appear irresponsible. You take no responsibility, you seek for someone, the scapegoat, outside of yourself to blame for everything from child frustration, their bad education, even for men's lack of motivation - hahaha - it is hilarious! Have you heard of the à¢-ËœPoor little sick cat game'? :verysad: à¢-ËœThey will criticize, they will think I am gay...poor me'! :verysad: I wander if given full access to a child in absence of this scary creature you call woman :[ , who would you blame for child's stress or your own frustrations?

 

So, my point is: I couldn't care less if you (generic you) are a man or a woman, it is actions of your body, speech and mind that make a difference! And I think this is the change I see around me when I look at my own or younger generations - it just doesn't matter anymore - man or a woman...it is about what you can do, what you are willing to do, how much effort you're willing to put into it...it seems things like this are starting to play an ever bigger role...and I surely will express my active support in this direction!

 

p.s. I feel like a praying mantis having the only male representative willing to talk to us for a snack :( . I can't really blame my mum for creating a she-monster...but I do admit I am a bit exaggerated sometimes... :D

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Dani,

 

:applause::applause::applause:

 

For me, as a single mother (with a son :blush: ), your point of view is the most sensible. Things are a little more complex than this article is trying to say. And, it's true, all that matters here are the actions of body, speech and mind not the woman's or man's actions.

Or is there any opposite "research" about father's influence on child's personality? It would be very interesing to read it.

 

:bow:

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Dear all,

we are all dealing with what we have. I know no ideal situations; if one could seem ideal from one point of view, it would already look not as such from the other point of view.

Life is not theory, indeed. That's why Dharma is so prescious, being a support and a guidance.

Best regards,

Pamo

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Guest Felix

Tashi Delek.

 

I think the thread offers quite an interesting view, if we take a look at the way how something is written, leaving aside the content. It somehow seems to support Alan's posts.

 

There are some outstanding features:

- Quite some women reacted very quickly and intensively. (Could this mean that Alan's post touched some weak points?)

- In most of the posts I can't find a clear standpoint (clear direction) - the message is dissipated in many directions. (I wonder if their authors dissipate their energy in the same way, this could be tiresome.)

- I noticed lack of objective arguments in rejections of Alan's post, things seem to be taken personally instead. (Does this reflect a usual way of dealing with discomfort and conflict?)

- Many replies are written in an emotional tone. (Can the authors deal with their emotional moods by themselves or they are involving them into everything they do?)

 

A note: These are rhetorical questions, not mentioned to describe anybody. I have no wish to favour anybody. I wrote it to put the matter in a new light. You might just as well disagree with me, I don't mind. :bow:

 

Respectfully,

Felix

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Hi.

 

I wonder in which part of the world this research took place. Did take a place in some social environment, where mothers are placed at home mainly, playing a role of a housewife and fathers are absent all days long? In this case, no wonder if the father does not seem to play any part in the expression of the psychological disorders.

 

In the social environment, in which fathers, mothers and teenagers are mostly all days long dealing with their professions, jobs, education or other activities, being separated physically from each other, I think all of them are very thankful if spend at least 2 to 3 hours together (usually in the evenings).

 

As I see it, in the time of my parents, to have got a free time, that would mean leaving children at home and going to the dinner in the evening or theater. Now a days, to have got a free time, for most of the parents I know, it means quite opposite, i. e. to spend some time together with their children.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Now, my dear Alan, you could equally be Alana :D as far as I am concerned, I would not leave my little sister with you - not because you are a man but simply because the actions of your speech and mind appear irresponsible. You take no responsibility, you seek for someone, the scapegoat, outside of yourself to blame for everything from child frustration, their bad education, even for men's lack of motivation - hahaha - it is hilarious!
How can you judge anyone as you are doing? Do you know my life? Do you know how I act with my children? And yet, you wouldn't let your sister with me! As about responsibility, I laugh. How old are you? What have you achieved so far about responsibility? Are you responsible of yourself first?

 

Out of my understanding of karma, I do not seek any scapegoat nor fault outside. I analyse what I observe in the society, among all people I receive for therapy as well.

Everything has a cause. Causes give effects. You are not who you are without having created causes. Right? The actions of one person still interact with the others. The way your parents did act, mixed with the way you perceived them, had an impact, which took part in your upbringing.

 

Your reaction proves actually my point, and I would probably be reluctant to put my children under your care, fearing you would project all kind of untrue emotional things and share/impose too strongly your opinions with them. But I guess you are young, no child yourself, and do no work with children much. So, much is just your emotions... as I can see also from the emoticons you used, and where, to push forward these emotions to the others, as when playing à¢-Ëœpoor little sick cat'.

 

After having observed hundreds, thousands, children and parents, with the wish to understand what can bring them resolution of the conflicts, seeking nothing else but soothing their suffering -now and hopefully in the future too- I of course drew out some lines, some generalities. Surely, these generalities do not apply to everyone, and do change with the time and places. We have to be supple enough to take each individuality in consideration.

 

Much is also based on what we define as a “good parentâ€, of course. There is no school of parents. And I'm glad of it, because who would teach there? Who would have the right to say how it is the best to act? Psychologist? I'm well places to say they might be the worst. Simply because the best way to help others comes with wisdom, and that is not taught by any school (except Buddhist ones, surely).

Anyhow, goodness is not by accepting all froma child, letting him/her eat what ever he wants, going to bed anytime, not setting clear and firm rules, etc... It might be seen as good for an emotionally immature person/child, but such attitude ain't good for the development of a child.

 

Most of my understanding is in fact very much shared by many mothers, lucid enough to observe the games of power and manipulation of so many parents, entangled in their own emotional disturbances, many times unable to act for the true benefit of their children. So many parents -fathers and mothers- want to come out of such play-role. And this can be done with analysing, pondering, meditating, controling better our mind.

 

It is far time to recognize children as a full persons, and to give them the rights and respect as regarding their individual development. This is possible only when we step away from our own emotions and give enough care for the others.

I'm sorry for what you might have gone through. I have a good mother and a good father. Nothing to blame them for.

 

it seems things like this are starting to play an ever bigger role...and I surely will express my active support in this direction!
You are not for the moment, because you are too caught in your own emotional illusion. It seems.

 

I was very good a “poor little sick catâ€. When I was trying to make the little sick cat laugh, because I had obverved the others well enough to know their obvious weakness I could act on; when I was the cat, because I wasn't caught in the manipulation of the others. And still not. I observe, and try to look beyond the illusion the people have often of themselves.

 

Bye, Alan

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Could this mean that Alan's post touched some weak points?)
Touché!

This reflects the most often cases: women react quickly, impulsively, and in disorder; men can swallow their reaction, think, and react with premeditation. This “emotional over-reaction†might be actually what causes the chronic fatigue of teenagers! And that is why mothers are more likely to create or maintain this syndrome.

Note that I don't say one or an other is right or wrong, react good or not. It is often like this.

 

Bye, Alan

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Sans aucun doute!

I also notice that women in general like to entangle into details and sometimes in quite unimportant things (from the men`s point of the view). As about bringing the children up, men are in general more relaxed and funny (for example, if they are on turn to provide meal for the children, they woudn`t complicate much and simply call "Allo pizza"). Cool!

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Guest Petra S

Hi,

 

I was thinking about the increasing growth of single-parent families. And even larger number of families where both parents are formally taking care of the child but are absent virtually all the time. Alan, you seem to be a therapist, how does these situations influence the development of a child? And what can balance the effect?

 

I was also wondering about this "thinking, balanced, stable role" of a man that you mentioned. Where can a little boy learn it nowadays? The educators are mostly women, the media are luring them into power games... :taptap: I miss nice role models for both genders.

 

Bye,

Petra

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Alan, you seem to be a therapist, how does these situations influence the development of a child? And what can balance the effect?
I'd sugest you open an other topic. Some "poor little sick cat" of this topic seems to lack the basic respect of opinion (though the last post containing what I refer to seems to have evaporate).

I do not like to argue for the sake of arguing, but when it can engage a genuine reflection. Otherwise, I simply keep my opinions for me, and apply then when I think they can help.

 

Bye, Alan

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