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billytiss

Is Search For Love

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Hi,

 

I think for the most of my life I am searching love. The true love. I also understand loving others is the source of true happiness. Yet I was trying and trying to figure out, how would true love experienced by me exist. What is the form of true love.

 

In my perception there are 3 sections:

1. compassion (wishing others not to suffer), gradually developed in Bodhichitta

2. love (wishing others to be happy)

 

3. experiences of being loved

Can this be experienced in a lasting way? For this 3. point I was actually trying to find a lasting being loved form.

 

Till now, with many banging in the wall, with many experiments, inexhaustibly searching I came to final conclusion.

 

LOVE THAT I COULD PERCEIVE AS TRUE LOVE EXPERIENCED BY ME (EXPLAINED IN 3. POINT) DOES NOT EXIST!

 

I am the continuum of consciousness, my experiences are continuum of results of karma I created, my past experiences of love are also continuum of results of my own karma...I can not make this karma to constantly be in LOVE form (as everything is changing).

 

What do you think about this 3. point of love? ://:0022:

Does experience of being loved also depend on karma one has created? So no karma - no experience. Even though situations of being loved are there?

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LOVE THAT I COULD PERCEIVE AS TRUE LOVE EXPERIENCED BY ME (EXPLAINED IN 3. POINT) DOES NOT EXIST!
Just a very personal reflection:

I think my own incapacity to perceive love is because I want to be special, I want to be that special someone...while the one who truly loves, I would guess, holds no one special or more special than any other, just loves fully and equally...this I might not like that much, I want to be special, so I could put that 'true love' (which I think I'd just call Bodhicitta) to question, and then on the top of that if I get a slap, then this certainly is no love! Or is it à¯Ã‚Š?

Would you feed a child candies until he explodes, just becasue eating candies is pleasurable?

Would you let a child steal candies, because he likes to eat them, and it is unpleasurable to say 'no' to the one you love so much?

 

What do you think about this 3. point of love? ://:0022:

Does experience of being loved also depend on karma one has created? So no karma - no experience. Even though situations of being loved are there?

I would tend to see it as an obscuration, preventing me to see something that is there, rather than something I need to further create causes for...? Maybe...

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I would tend to see it as an obscuration, preventing me to see something that is there, rather than something I need to further create causes for...? Maybe...

so form what I can understand from your post: not being loved would be better for your SPIRITUAL growth...IF YOUR MIND IS READY FOR THAT...like Milarepa's mind was ready for meditating in a cave for so many years...yet someone else would ran out in few days

 

But there is a difference between being loved at the moment and perception of being loved...maybe perception of being loved is what one needs to give up...maybe it is a grasping side of our mind...I do not know...I just know I can not find its eternal form, which makes me search for it for so many years.

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A few quotes, hopefully useful. :) Best regards, K.

 

"Suffering is a big word in Buddhist thought. It is a key term and it should be thoroughly understood. The Pali word is dukkha, and it does not just mean the agony of the body. It means that deep subtle sense of unsatisfactoriness which is a part of every mind moment and which results directly from the mental treadmill. The essence of life is suffering, said the Buddha. At first glance this seems exceedingly morbid and pessimistic. It even seems untrue. After all, there are plenty of times when we are happy. Aren't there. No, there are not. It just seems that way. Take any moment when you feel really fulfilled and examine it closely. Down under the joy, you will find that subtle, all-pervasive undercurrent of tension, that no matter how great this moment is, it is going to end. No matter how much you just gained, you are either going to lose some of it or spend the rest of your days guarding what you have got and scheming how to get more. And in the end, you are going to die. In the end, you lose everything. It is all transitory."

Henepola Gunaratana, from 'Mindfulness in Plain English'.

 

Renunciation

 

...initially then one would learn the alphabet, so you would learn the basic Tibetan grammar like [Tib], or in English 'A, B, C', then in dependence upon that you would learn how to form words and then sentences and then advance up into advanced grammar and so forth. So the Buddha taught his disciples in much the same way, that is to say, in a method which would lead them along a path. So 'path' here then is referring initially to renunciation. So there are two kinds of renunciation which are mentioned - one is to turn one's attention away from this life in and of itself and towards one's future lives; then to turn one's mind even away from future lives and put one's mind in a state where one wishes to achieve liberation from the cycle of existence. So thus then there is turning away from this life and then turning away from future lives, thus two kinds of turning away, and these are taught in stages to the aspiring disciples. In essence, we can say that the Buddhist teachings are taught as a method to subdue one's unruly mind, to subdue the destructive emotions which we find therein, and then to develop the spiritual qualities on top of that. ...

 

The Suffering of Change

 

The second then is the suffering of change; this is what the majority of people in the world do not want to recognise as dissatisfaction or suffering. The reason for this is because of the way we view pleasurable experiences in the world - we view them as being nothing other than pleasurable experiences, that is to say, only bringing about pleasure, not bringing about the slightest discomfort or dissatisfaction. So if we contemplate this - what is meant by the truth of the suffering of change, we will come to understand how all experiences, when brought about in a contaminated way, that is to say, under the influence of the destructive emotions and karma are all in this nature of dissatisfaction, they do not give any lasting satisfaction. For example if we are in a cold place and we go out into the sunshine - for the first moments we are sitting or lying there in the sun, it seems only to bring bliss and joy to the mind. However, the longer we stay in the sun, what we find is that this joy, this bliss which we achieve from going out of the cold room into the sun, suddenly changes. What happens is that we get very hot, very bothered or flustered, we might get sunburn, and then through this our whole perception of being in a warm place changes - far from being something which has brought us this seemingly inherently existing bliss or joy, it is rather something which has brought us a feeling of dissatisfaction, or a feeling of suffering. So then we might want to reverse this - so we go back into an air-conditioned room, a cool room. When we arrive there, again this feeling of great joy arises in the first moment of entering such a room and it appears as nothing but bliss and joy coming from going into that room or being under that fan. But as time goes on, then we get really, really cold, we start to freeze, and then again, we have to move on to a different place, we have to get out of that room, or turn the fan off, and relieve ourselves of what appeared previously as a self-existing joyful object. We find that we need to remove ourselves from such an object in that it is not producing the joy and happiness which we previously achieved from that.

 

- both by Denma Lochö Rinpoche

http://www.lamayeshe.com/otherteachers/locho/3pp_1.shtml

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I think my own incapacity to perceive love is because I want to be special, I want to be that special someone
There is a point.

 

...while the one who truly loves, I would guess, holds no one special or more special than any other, just loves fully and equally...this I might not like that much
Whether I am the only one loved or one of many, that love is unique and is perceived by me in accordance with karma I created. But what do we do with the experience of being loved.

 

Lets say we are with a partner and the partner loves us very much. But then he or she goes to the office and has some other things to do. Then out of the sudden I am in position of not knowing how to know I am loved. Maybe there is a simple conclusion, that being loved does not have any special experience behind. I do not know this. So I am trying to find a proper perception of situation which would lead me to more stable mind. Am I searching for something that does not exist?

 

Is what I experience the mere pleasure that I mistakenly perceive as being loved?

Would you feed a child candies until he explodes, just because eating candies is pleasurable? Would you let a child steal candies, because he likes to eat them, and it is unpleasurable to say 'no' to the one you love so much?
No, this is not an act of love.

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so form what I can understand from your post: not being loved would be better for your SPIRITUAL growth...IF YOUR MIND IS READY FOR THAT...like Milarepa's mind was ready for meditating in a cave for so many years...yet someone else would ran out in few days

I am not sure from what you understood that not being loved is better for spiritual growth? Khm...?

You think Milarepa's Teacher didn't love him? So...he put him through all that, just becasue Milarepa created the causes to undergo all those hardships, and his Teacher's instructions and requests were not the acts of unlimited love (not to mention the wisdom) for Milarepa?

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LOVE THAT I COULD PERCEIVE AS TRUE LOVE EXPERIENCED BY ME (EXPLAINED IN 3. POINT) DOES NOT EXIST!

You don't need to shout (capital letters) to be read better!

 

Thank you.

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Dear Billytiss,

I am sorry- I think I know where I wasn't clear...

 

It was a Gigu's post, actually Shenphen Rinpoche's reply to a question of a kid, published couple of days ago that made me go a bit more easy on the subject of creating new and new karma...

I thought, since I think we agree there are numerous Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and maybe some other beings with Bodhicitta, and we could be even in direct contact with some of them, knowing it, and yet we don't experience to be loved enough, we want something more...so, what I tried to say is that in this case, since love is obviously in my face already, it might be just a question of purifying something that is blocking my vision, getting rid of an obstacle, rather than creating something more, something new...

This is all I wanted to say.

Spiritual path without love? - No thank you :-)

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Of course, we should define what “love” is. And that might be a tough task ! Because everyone has his own definition of it.

 

But we shall not mix the usual definition of love (disturbed emotion) with compassion (yet still emotional), and with Bodhicitta (Awakening Compassion, motivation to liberate all beings from suffering).

 

Where usual love is an ego trick, more or less disturbed according to each person's history, the “Love” from a Enlightened Being toward all sentient beings is not connected with any disturbed emotion.

 

It doesn't mean that to love or being loved is so terribly wrong in itself, but one has to be aware that seeking for love, either to give or to receive, is obviously an attachment, and consequently a disturbance. It belongs to the eight mundane Dharmas, and as such it has to be tamed or transformed.

 

All the best,

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...so, what I tried to say is that in this case, since love is obviously in my face already, it might be just a question of purifying something that is blocking my vision, getting rid of an obstacle, rather than creating something more, something new...

This is all I wanted to say.

Thank you Dani for additional explanation :) now I understand what you mean and I agree with you on this very much.

 

In addition I would most gratefully thank for explanation of what love is made by Lama Shenphen Rinpoche :bow:.

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