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Csillag

Would It Be Sexual Misconduct ?

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Hi to everyone

 

Supposed you would have a quite unhappy relationship, but you still love that person,therefore you have not the power to end the relationship and he has also not the power to do so really. And imagine that your partner sayes I just want to have a loose realtionship at the moment with you.

 

Would it be sexual misconduct when under this conditions starting something with a new person, and afterwards finishing with ones boyfriend? I mean the new person would than clearly know about the emotionalbackground and there would be no play with his emotions. It would be clear from both sides.

 

So what do you think?

 

Thanks

Csillag

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So what do you think?

Dear Csillag,

difficult to say anything as an outsider, but in a similar situation I hope I would look at the benefits of being involved in one or the other or both relationships...what is the benefit, whom does it benefit...because when I am in a relationship, I tend to invest some energy and time to it, so I better know what for? Is this something benefiting others, who am I helping or making happy, is this good or important for my practice or is it taking my time away from it, is it helping others, or it is just about my own or the other person's or persons' craving, attachment, desiring, loneliness, fears...

 

...personally, such contemplation doesn't keep me always out of traps, because my craving, loneliness, desires are strong and ego is full of 'skilful means',.. but with sexual misconduct vow I would keep out of this particular situation, I think...

 

I wish you good decisions...

All best!

D.

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Would it be sexual misconduct when under this conditions starting something with a new person, and afterwards finishing with ones boyfriend?
If it involves intercourse, then yes, by definition.

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If it involves intercourse, then yes, by definition.

You mean that if there is just touching, it doesn't count? This reminds me of Bill Clinton. ;)

 

What I think is that the state of the first relationship is crucial - if both partners have agreed that this isn't a fixed relationship anymore, than anyone can do what s/he wants. But of course, it doesn't count if only one side decides like this, and the other side doesn't know. ;) So - the first relationship has to be ended, I think. If you decide later on that you can't live without one another, there is always a possibility to start anew, isn't there?

 

Several times it was said that sexual misconduct implies actions which cause suffering, either by violence, pain etc. or by hurting your partner by adultery and such.

 

All the best.

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You mean that if there is just touching, it doesn't count? This reminds me of Bill Clinton. ;)
Unfortunately there was a lot more than just touching in Mr. Clinton's case. There was a months lasting sexual relationship with another woman.

 

So - the first relationship has to be ended, I think.
If there has been sexual contact with another person and one needs to "finish with one's boyfriend after", then as far as I understand, this is adultery. Although our partner might feel that it is a total betrayal, "just" holding hands with someone else for example can't be sexual misconduct.

 

Best regards, K

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Maybe I see this a little bit 'black and white', as I was suggested by e-mail. But where would you draw the line? I think an existing bond with someone is a good criterion. Even though it is a loose bond, it still exists. If "let's just be friends" was said by at least one side, then the bond is finished.

Maybe this sounds a little bit too "formal", but this is how I imagine it to be "correct". Letting the other person actually know. On the other hand, if the bond is "naturally" broken, without having the talk, and there is no contact for some time and really no feeling of the relationship still existing, then I guess it is over.

I do feel that the breaking-up should be done with as much kindness, understanding and letting-go as possible, and there should be sufficient time for this to really 'sink in' for both. But the point is, I think that the breaking-up should take place before fully entering a new relationship. If one can't face the other person, one can always write a letter (e-mail) explaining what one feels, and that it is not working. Just my opinion (I have probably 'one too many' these days).

 

Best regards, K

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Good evening :)

 

Ethically speaking, one relation should be ended clearly before to start an other one.

In general, I completely agree with this.

But recently we touched a similar topic in a small group, and a man near 60, married for many years, said that if one cannot bear without, it is better to have a lover "on the side" and not end the marriage, as separation would be more painful for the children. And I also had to admit that this makes sense too, maybe because I could hear that it wasn't just an excuse, but the expression of genuine care.

Generally, I think if two people can't live together in a manner beneficial for both, then it is better to separate, and that this shorter pain is better than the long pain of an unpleasant cohabitation, and that children don't benefit from people staying together just "because of them".

But it seems some people are less radical, and I admit they have a grain of salt too. Because after all, if all people would do what I wrote above, most couples would separate, wouldn't they? ;)

 

All the best. :)

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as separation would be more painful for the children. And I also had to admit that this makes sense too, maybe because I could hear that it wasn't just an excuse, but the expression of genuine care.
Sometime it might seems that we act as "genuine care", but the ground for that "genuine care" is false, based on misunderstanding about how the reality of phenomena is, about what karma is, about the difference between pity and Compassion...

And in the situation mentioned, parents would lie may be because they can't bear the truth, they can't bear the feedback their children will give them, they can't bear the eventual suffering their children will suffer shortly. And they add adultery to their lies.

Children are often less stupid than what some people think. And when their parents aren't well together anymore, they might feel it very well. So, do we protect them by faking a lost relationship, maintaining a couple which has affairs aside? I doubt. The "grain of salt" in such case is for who?

 

Because after all, if all people would do what I wrote above, most couples would separate, wouldn't they?
May be most couple should be more thoughtful and consequent at the time of deciding to live together, eventually getting maried, and having children. Acting out of the blindness desire brings, not looking at the reality but only through the prism of projections and the greed for pleasure, and not foreseeing the consequences their actions will have ... is the seed for the real suffering.

 

People don't have to lie and commit adultery to try to cover a bit late their lack of responsibility; they have to think before to act...

 

All the best,

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Hi to everyone,

 

Thank you all for the replies, they were very interesting to read. But I do not have the power now to go into details to the answers. My relationship just ended before some minutes.

 

 

I took today another way than I did in the past, a more ethical one,it was costing me some courage, and this I would like to share with you:

 

I made him to decide, clearly told him what I want and what I do not want, that I do not let to play with me.He has to take a clear position. Because like this it cannot continue.Better to end something which is not genuine and strange than keeping it and suffering.

Watching his behave and what he says it seems to me he does not know what he wants, one day he wants me , one day not.He has personal problems, job problemes and his behave just makes me crazy.

 

I got the answer this night, suddenly he just wants to have friendship and no more relationship as he cannot give me what I need and deserve. So my relationship is today over. That`s fine for me. Than those ups and downs are over. I can relax.

I told him he should find out his real feelings, build up his life, getting away from those unstability within himself and I agreed to have friendship with him.

 

Something bad/not so good has to be ended that something new can begin, maybe with him or with some other person.

 

Sometimes maybe the time was not right, or it just should not be. Who knows?

 

But one thing I feel, if we really have a deeper connection, some deeper karma with each other then one day ( not in the near future), we will come again together, no matter how it looks at present but on a much more mature level, having a real relationship

( because when someone "really"works on himself, there will be a change, so then also a more mature relationship could be possible.)

I just know that I really love him and therefore I can let him go. If he comes back I will be happy if not, so it be! I will be happy also with myself and someone new will come.

 

Some thoughts and questions to karmic connections:

I believe that karmic connections can change from the better or to the worse. Time and right conditions, causes, play a role, therefore an end is not always an end initself, just a end for something , for a certain situation . ( of course on the relative level, as on the absolute level there is not even such thing as a end nor beginning) What do you think?

 

Is it very important how we feel, what happens, when we meet someone the first time,how our beginning feelings to someone are, does it give a kind of sign/tendrel how the character of the karmic connection is and this will stay like this for this life just changing within one life more rarely?And how can we influence those things?

 

 

Best wishes

Csillag

 

P.S.

 

It is interesting:It seems to me especially through my new experience that many of us think or feel, including me, that there is just one way to behave, to act, because of our habbits, but when we try to be ethical, then many other, new ways will show up. Suprisingly I had to notice, this vow of no sexual misconduct and other vows actually as well, can give more freedom, as we become more creative in our thinking, we are no longer slave to one pattern. We can always take a new direction, and a vow is helping in that.

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May be most couple should be more thoughtful and consequent at the time of deciding to live together, eventually getting maried, and having children.
I completely agree and I think to enter some new relation immediately the previous ends, it is not a very good idea. When I broke a relation it always took about half a year before go into something new, to apeace the feelings, to review the situation, to take time. Well, there are two extremes; some people after breaking up saying they will never ever enter in any relation at all or some people simply jump from one to an other relation, when something, even not of some great importance, is not as they want to be (when going in Portorose for the first time together it might be exiting, for the third time still, but for the 16 th time, believe me, it can be boring and "he" wants to go to the same restaurant each time, which "she" doesn`t like and "she" wants to take her best friend with, for which "he" thinks it is a stupid idea; and then it goes like "you never this, you never that").

The second thing is that the partner shall be put on a trial, because when everything is fine, no major problems, then it is easy to have nice relation. Plus, it shall be considered thoughtfully what attract us on the partner and what reject us. Living together, with time the things which attract us, will start to fade away slowly and the things which reject us will become more expressive (if someone is very loud in sneezing, at the beginning we don`t matter; after some years we think "for someone`s sake, why you must be so loud every time!" the emphasis is on every time). While, if not living together, the process is just opposite; the mistakes fade away and we remember mainly of the good things (Oh, good old times, when we bla, bla!). So, here we need to learn how to catch and keep the balance. In fact, a little distance in every relation is ok.

 

Best regards,

Simona

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Good afternoon :)

 

The "grain of salt" in such case is for who?

For me, to reflect on my thoughts on this matter. ;) I mean, one keeps very defined views, but no matter how well-defined and long-standing they are, it is good to re-think them from time to time.

 

May be most couple should be more thoughtful and consequent at the time of deciding to live together, eventually getting maried, and having children. Acting out of the blindness desire brings, not looking at the reality but only through the prism of projections and the greed for pleasure, and not foreseeing the consequences their actions will have ... is the seed for the real suffering.

I am afraid I can't agree completely. Because how are we to see so far into the future? What do we know about what changes life will bring to us, and our partner in 2, 5, 7, 15 years? It could for example happen that one will engage on a spiritual path, while the other one will be more inclined to follow the career ... So even if we think carefully and want to do our best, it is hard to make the decision for any relationship at all.

 

The other thing is, that to me it doesn't seem that children must grow up with their parents, both of them, in a "proper" family, to be happy. And I agree that in a family with lots of hidden tensions children are not happy. I would say that it is better that the partners separate, than to commit adultery just to keep the "peace". But separate in a grown-up manner, each taking their part of responsibility, and not making war like small children, quarreling over the property, giving the blame to each other and using the children as "peons" in this game. Because I think this is the major cause of suffering, and not the fact to live with only one parent (mother or father), and seeing the other one at defined times.

 

All the best. :)

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